Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

So what's your explanation (speculation, whatever) as to why this particular group of scientists and statisticians, obviously representing a broad swath of institutions around the world, and not obviously biased or beholden to anyone, came to the conclusions they did and concluded that the prior studies did not apply to the COVID-19 pandemic?

I need to understand that, I think, before simply rejecting this study out of hand for the sole reason it disagreed with prior studies.

I am not by the way merely assuming they are right, for better or worse I found their exposition fairly persuasive. Now granted this science is above my pay grade, but in my chosen profession I have had to learn a lot of complex subject matters and think for a layperson I am pretty good at it. (Must be a logical fallacy there lol.)

[G1911]

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[Eric72]

Originally Posted by G1911

...the months of abuse and hostility have certainly made me refuse to participate...

Has this abuse occurred on Net54, in real life, or a blend of the two?

[G1911]

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[Leon]

Originally Posted by G1911

I am not referencing Net54 at all.

I live in the SF Bay Area, where even quietly going about your business without partaking is at best seen as highly problematic. The emotional investment in the narrative runs very deep. At the height people would literally call the cops if someone was taking a walk outdoors without a mask (even though this technically escaped most of the states mandates). I’ve seen just how loving and tolerant my caring neighbors are with anyone who disagrees with their key narratives. It’s gotten slightly better, but still difficult to go out anywhere without some throwing a profane tantrum.

Move to Texas.

I got my vaccine because of what I have read and seen. Statistically it is better to have one. To say otherwise seems to be contrary to the vast majority of health professionals opinions and research I have read. Ane at this point I am not wearing a mask where I am not required to. If people want to wear one, awesome, if they don't, awesome. I don't care any longer because anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. If they get Covid it's on them not me. And I am aware that the efficacy rate of the vaccines isn't 100% but it's 94%- 95%, so I am taking my chances. I am also aware we don't know of long term side effects. I still think the I made the right decision for me. To each their own.

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[G1911]

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[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by G1911

At the height people would literally call the cops if someone was taking a walk outdoors without a mask (even though this technically escaped most of the states mandates).

That is so ridiculous, especially given that when you look at the reality of how COVID is usually passed: being in close quarters for at least 15 minutes with someone infected. Some health experts (real ones, not extreme political propaganda lunacy) have said as much, and it also makes sense realistically, as how many people claim that they probably got COVID from taking a jog in public without a mask? It's been pretty clear that situations like locker rooms, homes, packed spring break parties, etc seem to have been responsible for most of the spread.

But of course not many experts wanted to come out with such info since it's taboo in these spots to publicize anything but the most overly cautious advice.

So if someone called the cops on me for walking around w/o a mask in open areas that were far from back-to-back people, my problem wouldn't be the "muh rights" part, but the sheer idiocy of considering it a COVID issue

[jiw98]

I spent this past winter in the Orlando area of Florida. During my stay I did not hear of one person in the community I was in get COVID. I was socially active seven days a week playing golf, bocce ball, church, and going out to dinner. All of these activities included persons from outside of my family/ household. Masks were only worn to get into a restaurant, but not while we were seated. There were times where we would have as many as 8 couples in our group. We were from separate households, we all sat together, and nobody that I know of caught an illness of any kind.
My point here is, if you are ill, stay home. Hopefully this is something good that we will learn from all of what has happened during this difficult time. To many times people go out while being sick not thinking of the people you may come in contact with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I do not know, I cannot disparage the motive of people I do not know. If I have to give a reason, and I don't think I should as it is pure speculation and I do not personally like to engage in pure speculation, it is because people find what they want to find when it becomes a highly emotional issue. In 2019, masks were not emotional. It was almost universally understood that they did not do anything to stop airborne transmission of viruses, and this was borne out in numerous studies, which was not surprising as they have large gaps and were not designed for this purpose whatsoever. In January 2021 when this appears to have been done, masks were and are a highly emotional (I think this thread can be used as evidence there) issue, and those who don't go with the narrative can expect a torrent of hostility directed there way, while those who do use them generally are heavily invested in it as a signal of virtue and morality.


I am not a scientist, I am not an expert in viruses, nor a doctor of any kind. I run an analytics department in a medtech company. I trust statistical data, good data used appropriately. I have to trust good old common sense (why would a mask with large gaps be expected to stop transmission of an airborne disease?) when I have nothing better to go off of. Science pronounces many things that are wrong (if we accept these studies now, then science before late March 2020 was wildly incorrect). I think the tendency we have drifted towards in recent years of treating "science" almost as a religion never to be questioned is foolish. I love the Socratic, I like the Scientific Method, I do not like this new "ignore what we said before, and do not question what we say now", especially when it flies in the face of the available data. I certainly will not be avoiding family and friends, wearing a mask that statistically does nothing to prevent a risk that is almost non-existant and injecting experimental drugs into myself because so many have brought into the fear flavor of the month. The narrative simply does not align with the evidence, and the anger and castigation I face on a daily basis for simply not partaking in the popular panic (I have never told anyone else that they should make the same choice I do, or that they can't wear a mask or get a vaccine, I simply am not participating along with you and disagree) only makes me want to have even less to do with this. I came to my conclusion on evidentiary grounds, but the months of abuse and hostility have certainly made me refuse to participate even moreso. All of us compromise what we know to be to get along sometimes (No, my girlfriend is not a good cook, but yes I tell her she is for the sake of harmony), but when the demand is that I reshape my life and pretend to be terrified of a statistically insignificant fear and never question the narrative of the state and the vocal part of the public, I think it reaches a level of absurdity in which the right thing is to refuse to be party to it.

I read some of the evidence differently than you do, and would take issue with some of your characterizations, but I respect the position you have articulated and find it more engaging to discuss than someone who simply comes in with a conspiratorial, denialistic perspective.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is a very positive ending. Thank you for a fun debate

Thanks to you as well, enjoyed it.

[earlywynnfan]

Debate without name-calling??
Without my side yelling that your side is going to ruin America?

WTF?