The Tobacco Triple Crown - Players in T205, T206 and T207 sets

[brianp-beme]

1909 through 1912 was a glorious time for card collectors, and the T206 and T205 card sets are probably the most widely collected tobacco cards of the deadball era. The T207 set definitely lags in popularity and availability, but it shares characteristics of the other two sets (size of card, larger size of set, major league players, artwork based upon photos instead of photos themselves) to make it part of the Tobacco Card Triple Crown. There are other great tobacco sets from the era (T3, T201, T202, T204, T211 etc.), but none of them share all of the same specifications that I listed above.

Below is a list of the 71 players that have cards in each of these three sets. The T207 set definitely had an odd player selection, with many fringe players included, otherwise this list would have been much larger. As it is, beside the obvious big names missing in the T207 set (Cobb, Mathewson, Eddie Collins, etc.), the players that are seen in all three sets are definitely some of the more popular players of this era, and ones that are frequently seen in the other sets of the era, such as in various 'E' card issues.

Below is this list of players seen in all three sets, and I have included a scan of the Tobacco Triple Crown of one of these players, Lefty Leifield. Feel free to show any trios you may have. And let me know if anything seems inaccurate, whether missing or erroneously included. At some point I might do a list of those players seen in both T205 and T206, which would be a much larger grouping.

I have added an asterisk by each player that has had their Triple Crown on display.

Players in all three sets - T205/T206/T207

Neal Ball
Cy Barger *
Jack Barry * (thanks Peter)
Beals Becker *
Chief Bender *
Bob Bescher
Joe Birmingham
Lena Blackburne
Roger Bresnahan *
Bobby Byrne *
Howie Camnitz *
Bill Carrigan
Frank Chance *
Eddie Cicotte
Doc Crandall *
Jim Delahanty *
Art Devlin
Josh Devore *
Red Dooin *
Tom Downey
Larry Doyle *
Clyde Engle
Steve Evans *
Art Fletcher *
Art Fromme *
Peaches Graham *
Buck Herzog **
Walter Johnson *
Johnny Kling *
Ed Konetchy *
Harry Krause
Arlie Latham *
Tommy Leach *
Lefty Leifield *
Ed Lennox *
Paddy Livingston *
Harry Lord
Rube Marquard *
George McBride *
John McGraw *
Harry McIntire
Matty McIntyre *
Larry McLean *
Clyde Milan *
Dots Miller *
Mike Mitchell *
George Moriarity *
George Mullin *
Tom Needham *
Rebel Oakes *
Rube Oldring *
Dode Paskert *
Jack Quinn *
Ed Reulbach *
Nap Rucker *
Germany Schaefer *
Frank Schulte *
Jim Scott
Fred Snodgrass
Tris Speaker *
Oscar Stanage *
Harry Steinfeldt *
George Stovall *
Gabby Street *
Lee Tannehill *
Joe Tinker *
Terry Turner *
Bobby Wallace *
Zack Wheat *
Doc White *
Chief Wilson *
Hooks Wiltse *

Brian

[Tom S.]

Neat idea for a thread!

Allow me to help you cross Lee Tannehill off of the list:

T205:


T206:


Bonus T206!!!!:


T207:

[GeoPoto]

Walter P. "Barney" Johnson. "The Big Train". Pitcher for the Washington Senators in 1907-1927. 417 wins and 34 saves in 21 MLB seasons. 1924 World Series champion. 1913 and 1924 AL Most Valuable Player. 3-time triple crown. 6-time AL wins leader. 5-time AL ERA leader. 12-time AL strikeout leader.

Johnson had a career ERA of 2.17 in 5,914.1 innings pitched. He pitched a no-hitter in 1920. He holds the MLB record with 110 career shutouts. MLB All-Time Team. Inducted to the MLB Hall of Fame in 1936. One of his best seasons was 1913 as he posted a record of 36-7 with a 1.14 ERA in 346 innings pitched.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390610
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390623
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390683

[hcv123]

Howie Camnitz including all 3 T206 poses. Short a couple of T207's on a couple of the other Pirates - from the Chasser & sons Pirates collection

[brianp-beme]

Nice Triple Crowns everyone. It is nice that these three sets have completely different images for a player, unlike, for example, the E90/E92/E101/E102/E105 etc. pool of shared images.

Here is another Tobacco trio, this time featuring Beals Becker. In the previous Triple Crown of Leifield the T206 I showed is the favorite image from the 3 sets. In this one of Becker the T207 is the king in my eyes.

Brian

[tedzan]

Big John "Larry" McLean, at 6-feet-5 inches and nearly 230 pounds, was a huge character. You'll find his SABR write-up quite interesting, check it out.....
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/larry-mclean/


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----------PIEDMONT 350



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[familytoad]

Great idea for a thread!
I’m going to hit the scanner soon and post my Triple Crowns!
Oddly I don’t have as many T206 as I do T207.
I made up for it with a couple sets of T205.
Looking forward to seeing more posts in this thread!

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Brian...the more the merrier!

I was contacted by John S. about Cy Barger being in all three sets, so I have updated the original post. Now there are 71 players that have 3 crowns on their head.

Brian

[GeoPoto]

Germany Schaefer

Herman A. "Germany" Schaefer. Infielder for the Washington Senators in 1909-1914. 972 hits, 9 home runs, and 201 stolen bases in 15 MLB seasons. His "steal" of first base prompted rule making it illegal.

Schaefer was popular as a baseball "trickster" and "on-field clown", often in tandem with Charley O'Leary and, later, with Nick Altrock. Altrock eventually perfected the art with Al Schacht.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620470365
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620470375
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620470386

[FrankWakefield]

To me, this seems a fun idea for a thread. Thank you all for your posts.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620492201

Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract's first edition had a page entitled Ed Who. Ed pitched about the best WS game until Carl Erskine and then Don Larson. Ed had 2 complete game wins in a double header as the Cubs were trying to win the pennant in 1908. During his career, his innings pitched each season was greater than the sum of hits allowed plus walks; something no HOF pitcher can claim. Ed supported player organizations, way ahead of his time; I think this got him shuffled to the Federal League and affected the number of starts he got the last few years he played. I think that if he'd stayed with the Cubs and stayed in their good graces that he'd have had 200+ wins and he'd be in the Hall. Ed is an overlooked ballplayer.

I think I may have another combination... gotta look for those cards.

[GeoPoto]

Pinch McBride

George F. "Pinch" McBride. Shortstop for the Washington Senators in 1908-1920. 1,203 hits, 7 home runs, and 133 stolen bases in 16 MLB seasons. Debuted with the Milwaukee Brewers in 1901.

McBride has the lowest batting average of any player with 5,000 MLB at-bats. Managed the Washington Senators in 1921, but was struck in the face by a line drive during batting practice and forced to retire.

Like his contemporary in the National League, Mickey Doolan, George McBride was the prototypical “good-field, no-hit” shortstop during the Deadball Era. Widely viewed as the best defensive shortstop in his league, he led the AL in fielding percentage five times, including four times consecutively from 1912 to 1915, and was near the lead in most other years.

Meanwhile, McBride struggled mightily at the bat. He achieved only a .218 lifetime batting average, never exceeding .235 for a single season. Despite his meager overall hitting statistics, McBride's nick-name, "Pinch" derives from his reputation for clutch hitting, or hitting well in a "pinch".

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620555900
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620555911
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620555919

[brianp-beme]

Here is the Triple Crown of Jack Quinn, known in our vintage collecting world as the player seen in both the T206 and 1933 Goudey sets. But he is also seen in the T205 and T207 sets.

As a side note, to me it looks like the T207 of Quinn is a Factory 605, instead of the normal Factory 606, because the the top of the last number appears to be completely straight and at a right angle, as the number 5 would be printed. The close up of the Quinn Factory '605' is on the left, and a regular printed Factory 606 on the right. Good possibility it is an optical illusion, but still a fun card to consider.

Also, in the first post I have put an asterisk by each player that has had their Triple Crown shown, so as to make it a little easier for those to know what players still need to be posted. I will do my Net54 best to keep it current.

Brian

[tedzan]

PSA says DELEHANTY.....and, I say DELAHANTY. I am right, they are wrong !





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

PSA says DELEHANTY.....and, I say DELAHANTY. I am right, they are wrong !





TED Z

T206 Reference
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It's spelled wrong on the t206 and a lot of the newspapers from when he played spelled it Delehanty too.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Pat R

It's spelled wrong on the t206 and a lot of the newspapers from when he played spelled it Delehanty too.

And I am immediately changing the spelling seen in the first post!

Brian

[GeoPoto]

Clyde Milan (Pronounced millin)

J. Clyde "Deerfoot" Milan. Outfielder for the Washington Senators in 1907-1922. 2,100 hits and 495 stolen bases in 16 MLB seasons. 1912 and 1913 AL stolen base leader, including a then record 88 in 1912. His career OBP was .353.

Milan's best season was probably 1911 as he posted a .395 OBP with 58 stolen bases and 109 runs scored in 705 plate appearances. He managed the Washington Senators in 1922.

Milan’s peak was from 1911 to 1913 when he played in every game but one, batted over .300 each season, and averaged almost 74 stolen bases per season. In the AL, only Cobb and Collins had more stolen bases than Milan during the dead ball era.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620907812
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620907822
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620907833
This concludes the Washington portion of this program.

[t206fanatic]

Joe Tinker, a member of the most celebrated double play trio in baseball history.

[nebboy]

Chance

[FrankWakefield]

Evans...

[tedzan]

Frank "Wildfire" Schulte....1911 was a banner year for Frank batting .300 with 30 Doubles, 21 Triples, 21 HR's, 121 RBI's (the latter 2 stats. led the NL). And 23 Stolen Bases.


A rare PIEDMONT #42

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[brianp-beme]

If Tom Needham, we got'em.

Brian (the asterisk man)

[tedzan]

George Wiltse







Rare PIEDMONT #42
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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[brianp-beme]

Today's Tobacco Triple Crown takes on Rube Oldring. Rube has another card in the T206 set (a batting pose), but all it requires is one card from each set for a player to proudly wear the pointy head topper.

Brian

[tedzan]

Trifecta for "Doc" Crandall


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[commishbob]

IMG_7533ggg.jpg



Terrible pic but here are my Charles Bender T's. The 'No Trees' version isn't trimmed but the scan was cropped for my blog.

[tedzan]

Doc White

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Brian.....I have not seen a T207 Doc White card. There is none of them for sale on ebay, and none listed as having been sold on ebay.

I think this card exists, but I did not think it was this rare. Anyhow, I posted my reprint of his T207. I hope this is acceptable with you;
otherwise, I will just delete this post.



TED Z

T206 Reference

[brianp-beme]

Ted the T207 White card is definitely a tough one. I have never gone after the T207 rarities, but I lucked into a White many years ago. Fast forward a few years and I ended up trading it to an advanced T207 collector on Net54 who did not have it, and received a really nice card (and 1 or 2 others!) in the trade.

The thread king will allow your post, but feel free anyone else to post a Doc White triple crown they might have...it will be one of the tougher of the 71 to have cards in all 3 sets.

Brian

Originally Posted by tedzan

Doc White

Brian.....I have not seen a T207 Doc White card. There is none of them for sale on ebay, and none listed as having been sold on ebay.

I think this card exists, but I did not think it was this rare. Anyhow, I posted my reprint of his T207. I hope this is acceptable with you;
otherwise, I will just delete this post.



TED Z

T206 Reference

[brianp-beme]

Here is the Roger B. trio, including the T205 which was one of the first 5 vintage cards that I picked up.

Brian

[t206fanatic]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Ted the T207 White card is definitely a tough one. I have never gone after the T207 rarities, but I lucked into a White many years ago. Fast forward a few years and I ended up trading it to an advanced T207 collector on Net54 who did not have it, and received a really nice card (and 1 or 2 others!) in the trade.

The thread king will allow your post, but feel free anyone else to post a Doc White triple crown they might have...it will be one of the tougher of the 71 to have cards in all 3 sets.

Brian

The 4 Doc White's from the t205/6/7 sets:

[tedzan]

GEORGE PASKERT

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[brianp-beme]

Here's Charles Dooin-it portrait style for the American Tobacco Company. You definitely can see in each card why his nickname was Red. I really like his T205 and T206. I like the T207, but the Cheshire Cat grin does creep me out a little. I guess it must have served him well on the vaudeville circuit, as is written on his T207 biographical write-up.

Brian

[tedzan]

Josh Devore


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[brianp-beme]

Any player/team collectors with Tobacco Triple Crowns they would like to share?

Brian

[tedzan]

Brian

I'll be posting some more, if I can find the T205's and T207's in my archives. I'll keep searching ole buddy.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[G1911]

My favorite triple crown is Quinn (already posted), because of his appearance in 1933 Goudey as an active major league player (unlike the Collins, Speaker and Lajoie). He's the only T205/6/7 run I've built intentionally and specifically.

Another cool one is Chief Bender, though I don't have his, because it can extend both ways. Bender appears also in T204 and t208, the only subject to appear in 5 consecutive T card sets by the ACC numbers, I believe. I'd build his run if a T208 wasn't so expensive.

Paddy Livingston, a sentimantal favorite as his T205 was my first T card of any kind, also appeared in T208 to expand his run to 4 in a row. Numerous players in T204 extend to 4 as well.

Jack O'Brien, Jack Goodman, Leach Cross and Young Corbett hold the non-baseball consecutive T card set record at 3 (T218/T219/T220), going off memory. I don't believe any non-sport subject appears in 3 in a row T sets.

[wheatfan]

IMG_2299.jpg

Here's my Zack Wheat T206, 205, and 207.

Favorite thing is the stains on the Polar Bear from being packed in scrap tobacco. Also that they're Zack Wheat. Also that his first name appears three different ways...

I absolutely love the 1960 Fleer (HOF) card they did with him posed like his T205.

[brianp-beme]

Neat info about Bender and Livingstone. I didn't consider the T208 set because it is a fairly rare beast and only features members of the A's (nothing against the team, I swear). And although quite a bit more common than the T208 set, I decided against the T204 because of the differences in size and shape versus T205/T206/T207.

By the way, nice Wheats!

Brian

Originally Posted by G1911

My favorite triple crown is Quinn (already posted), because of his appearance in 1933 Goudey as an active major league player (unlike the Collins, Speaker and Lajoie). He's the only T205/6/7 run I've built intentionally and specifically.

Another cool one is Chief Bender, though I don't have his, because it can extend both ways. Bender appears also in T204 and t208, the only subject to appear in 5 consecutive T card sets by the ACC numbers, I believe. I'd build his run if a T208 wasn't so expensive.

Paddy Livingston, a sentimantal favorite as his T205 was my first T card of any kind, also appeared in T208 to expand his run to 4 in a row. Numerous players in T204 extend to 4 as well.

Jack O'Brien, Jack Goodman, Leach Cross and Young Corbett hold the non-baseball consecutive T card set record at 3 (T218/T219/T220), going off memory. I don't believe any non-sport subject appears in 3 in a row T sets.

[wheatfan]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

neat info about bender and livingstone. I didn't consider the t208 set because it is a fairly rare beast and only features members of the a's (nothing against the team, i swear). And although quite a bit more common than the t208 set, i decided against the t204 because of the differences in size and shape versus t205/t206/t207.

By the way, nice wheats!

Brian

thanks!

[GeoPoto]

Gabby Street with T3 in lieu of T207, which reflects his defection to NY.

Charles E. "Gabby" Street. "The Old Sarge". Catcher for the Washington Senators in 1908-1911. 312 hits and 2 home runs in 8 MLB seasons. Debuted with the Cincinnati Reds in 1904.

Caught ball dropped from top of Washington Monument. Holds MLB record for longest gap between MLB games at 19 years -- 1912-1931. Managed the St. Louis Cardinals in 1929 and 1930-1933, including the 1931 World Series championship. Managed the St. Louis Browns in 1938.

Because Gabby was discarded by Washington (Griffith) after the 1911 season, his T207 card reflects his status in 1912 as a New York Highlander. That prevents me from being able to complete a Tobacco Triple Crown as Brian has defined it. But since nobody has rushed forward to cover Street, I offer a modified, but thoroughly collectable, Tobacco Triple Play with Street's T3 card replacing the T207. This also provides me another chance to present what I regard as one of the most beautiful (and thoughtful) tobacco cards ever created, the T3 depicting Gabby as a Washington Senator with our national capital and Washington monument looming in the cityscape.

From Street's SABR Biography: Persistence paid off for Street, and his contract was sold to the Washington Senators. Of the 504 games Street played in the major leagues, 429 were over the next four years (1908-11) with Washington. His calling card was his defense, as he led the league in putouts and double plays in both 1908 and 1909. In 1910 he was atop his peers with a fielding percentage of .978.

(I have to admit to not understanding what leading the league in double plays (on defense) means. Perhaps it refers to starting double plays, which could begin with poor sacrifice bunts or strikeouts on hit-and-run? Seems an odd record for a catcher. You would expect a shortstop.)

In today’s vernacular Street’s batting average would be characterized as worthy of the “Mendoza Line,” as his average with the Senators was a meek .210. Catchers of the day were never expected to hit that well, and in any event Washington was not fielding a championship team in those years, finishing no better than seventh place in the American League and no closer than 22½ games back of the pennant winner.

Importantly, Walter Johnson favored Street, acknowledging him as a first-rate catcher. “He always kept the pitcher in good spirits with his continual chatter of sense and nonsense,” said the Big Train. “ ‘Ease up on this fellow, Walter, he has a wife and two kids,’ he would call jokingly when some batter was hugging the plate and getting a toehold for a crack at one of my fast ones. ‘This fellow hasn’t had a hit off you since you joined the league,’ might be his next remark and so on throughout the game.”

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1622830256
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https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1622830274

[brianp-beme]

I believe there was a tie when it comes to Gabby Street's Tobacco Triple Crown, where his T3 and T207 cards were deadlocked due to the T3 visually depicting the Washington Monument on the front, while the T207 mentions the ball drop from the Washington Monument in the writeup on the back.

Brian

[tedzan]

Arlie Latham

PIEDMONT #42
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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[brianp-beme]

Without looking into it, Arlie Latham is a real puzzling choice to be a Tobacco Triple Crown recipient, as his playing career ended in the 1890's, except for four games in 1909. But if you check out some of the writeup I excerpted from his SABR biography, you can understand better why he was included in all 3 sets:

Latham’s mischievous behavior on the diamond earned him the name as the “Freshest Man on Earth,” a popular song at that time. Standing only five feet eight inches and never weighing more than 150 pounds, he was never a power hitter but was a great base stealer. In 1887 Latham batted .316 and stole 129 bases. In the playoffs that year he stole 15 bases.

Arlie jockeyed and taunted opposing players not only from the bench but also as a third base coach. At that time there was no coaching box that the third base coach was supposed to stay in, so Arlie took full advantage of it by running up and down the third base line while yelling invectives at the pitcher while he was in the middle of his windup. The rule makers, taking notice of Arlie running up and down the line like a lunatic, soon put into the rules the coaching box. Arlie is reported to have been the first permanent base coach in major league history.

Arlie’s great gymnastic ability paid off from time to time. During one game Arlie laid down a bunt and the opposing team’s first baseman, a big man, was in the baseline with the ball waiting to tag Arlie. Suddenly Arlie did a complete somersault over the startled first baseman and came down safely on the bag. Arlie and the St. Louis team were a pugnacious lot and were greatly encouraged by Von der Ahe to intimidate the other teams. When the league fined them, which was often, Von der Ahe would pay off the fines.

Arlie got into many brawls. At the end of one season he had 20 fights scheduled, five with teammates. The brawling seemed somewhat out of character, for Arlie had a tremendous sense of humor and seemed more of jokester than a fighter.

Pranks and brawls aside, Latham was a legitimate ballplayer. He played 1629 games in the majors, banged out 1836 hits with 27 homers, and scored 1481 runs. His lifetime batting average was only .269, but he was a great base stealer with at lease 742 (stolen base data is still missing for four seasons). Arlie also holds an unenviable record for the most errors lifetime for a third baseman, 822-more than 200 more than any other player. Arlie has a lot of footnotes in the history of baseball, more than most players: First full-time coach; brought into existence the third-base coaching box; oldest man ever to steal a base; and participant in the several of the earliest World Series.

And more fun stuff in his SABR biography (and a dark side too...make sure that guy who tears up cards doesn't get a hold of any of Latham's).

Brian

[tedzan]

Brian....great story on Arlie.

Here's a photo (circa 1952) of a get-together of some great HOFers at Toots Shor's Restaurant in NYC to honor Arlie Latham.







TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[brianp-beme]

I will continue to post these Tobacco Triple Crown players at least once a week, until I run out (got about 6 more). Hopefully there are some more out there that haven't been posted. Feel free to do so, at your leisure.

Here is the Triple of Larry Doyle.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Sometimes I like to Kling onto a thread that is dangling perilously close to extinction. I only have five Tobacco Triple Crown trios left to give...do your part and post yours on behalf of collectorkind!

Brian

[tedzan]

Brian

Years ago, I broke up my T207 set and the tougher cards were the first that sold. So, I'm including
my reprint card of the T207 Herzog to make this Triple Crown work. I hope you don't mind.


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[benge610]

Great work Brian and all.
Thank you for a most enjoyable thread.
I am mostly E stuff but you have given me new cause to put together some Triple Crowns with my T's.
Ben

[tedzan]

Brian..... This thread, instead of a non-existent T207 Cobb, also works well with a T201 Cobb. Hope this is OK with you.
After all, a great thread as this is must have a Triple Crown Cobb


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Ed Konetchy








TED Z

T206 Reference
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[LACardsGuy]

My question is why did they make him look like Buster Keaton in the brown background card. :-)

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

Walter P. "Barney" Johnson. "The Big Train". Pitcher for the Washington Senators in 1907-1927. 417 wins and 34 saves in 21 MLB seasons. 1924 World Series champion. 1913 and 1924 AL Most Valuable Player. 3-time triple crown. 6-time AL wins leader. 5-time AL ERA leader. 12-time AL strikeout leader.

Johnson had a career ERA of 2.17 in 5,914.1 innings pitched. He pitched a no-hitter in 1920. He holds the MLB record with 110 career shutouts. MLB All-Time Team. Inducted to the MLB Hall of Fame in 1936. One of his best seasons was 1913 as he posted a record of 36-7 with a 1.14 ERA in 346 innings pitched.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390610
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390623
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1620390683