Babe Ruth General Gum Sign/Display - Black Light PIX added FINALLY

[Shoeless Moe]

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[Shoeless Moe]

I notice when comparing the coffee mug/towels pix if you look at the Red letters in the words BASEBALL GUM at the top there is white in those letters whereas on this sign they are fully Red.

https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...tion-road.html

Does that mean anything?

[Hankphenom]

What about smell, Paul? I remember many years ago old-timers telling me that they always smelled things first, maybe even cards, that something this old should smell at least a little musty. Especially this piece, which looks like it has gone through...well, what is it supposed to have gone through to have suffered that much uneven browning? Exposure to moisture? Air? Both? Shouldn't it smell a bit funky?

[drcy]

I just looked at the close-up images, in particular the printing details, along with all the other images.

If the cardstock has all the signs of being old (smells musty, foxing, passes the blacklight test), I am confident it is original and authentic.
This isn't just from some general "feel" or "impression." I was looking for distinct printing and ink details in the close-up image. Plus I considered all the other images and evidence.

The funky staining made me wonder too at first. However, I don't think it's deceptive toning but water damage or staining it got sometime over the years.

This would be an item worthy of restoration and cleaning.

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

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That's not a hand made piece. Those are machine die cuts and the printing is showing through the weathering much like the type of printing of the day including old Goudey cards. Halftone dot printing doesn't do that. The fact that company makes a bunch of stuff with that design means nothing. They probably pulled it from an original somewhere.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

That's not a hand made piece. Those are machine die cuts and the printing is showing through the weathering much like the type of printing of the day including old Goudey cards. Halftone dot printing doesn't do that. The fact that company makes a bunch of stuff with that design means nothing. They probably pulled it from an original somewhere.

No doubt a product of sophisticated printing, or some type of CGI. But what kind of "weathering" ends up on both sides like that? There's always something new under the sun in this hobby, but I've never seen aging or deterioration that like on a legitimate piece, therefore my suspicions about it.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

No doubt a product of sophisticated printing, or some type of CGI. But what kind of "weathering" ends up on both sides like that? There's always something new under the sun in this hobby, but I've never seen aging or deterioration that like on a legitimate piece, therefore my suspicions about it.

Hank, agree with you, and pretty sure that is the main reason behind anyone here who has commented it's a fake.

So I think the black light which is on the way will hopefully help with that (one way or the other). Also, as I've mentioned I've emailed some restoration places, my first question to them will be that staining, and their opinion on it, and then if I take it to them in person their thoughts on that and age of the piece.

I also have yet to mention as I wanted to see the comments come in first, but the seller of this said it came from a collection that included many baseball letters and contracts from the Yankees from the 1920's, again not saying he couldn't have had a lemon in with the group, but just another clue pushing the possession arrow to point toward Real.

Of course if it glows once my blacklight gets here that will put the kibosh on Real, so I'll post those pix later in the week. But if it doesn't glow, then probably off to a well known and respected paper conservator.

We'll see.

[nolemmings]

Best of luck on having your item found to be genuine.

If it is genuine, questions remain as to the subjects mentioned in the ad.

If it is not genuine, questions remain whether it is a reproduction or fantasy piece. Seems to me there is evidence that an original exists or did at one time.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Best of luck on having your item found to be genuine. If it is genuine, questions remain as to the subjects mentioned in the ad. If it is not genuine, questions remain whether it is a reproduction or fantasy piece. Seems to me there is evidence that an original exists or did at one time.

+1 to all of the above.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

No doubt a product of sophisticated printing, or some type of CGI. But what kind of "weathering" ends up on both sides like that? There's always something new under the sun in this hobby, but I've never seen aging or deterioration that like on a legitimate piece, therefore my suspicions about it.

I have a number of paper pieces here in my collection from different genres that have weathering/fading/discoloring on both sides. It's not always weathering exactly but fade or discoloring from the acids and such in the paper when stacked between other paper items. Whatever items are on top and bottom of it often affect the paper in between even when stored in a dark cool place. Bottom line is we can all sit here all day with our glasses half full or half empty about it. Until it is tested or one of us has it in hand it's hard to tell for sure. I hope it is authentic for the OP.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

I have a number of paper pieces here in my collection from different genres that have weathering/fading/discoloring on both sides. It's not always weathering exactly but fade or discoloring from the acids and such in the paper when stacked between other paper items. Whatever items are on top and bottom of it often affect the paper in between even when stored in a dark cool place. Bottom line is we can all sit here all day with our glasses half full or half empty about it. Until it is tested or one of us has it in hand it's hard to tell for sure. I hope it is authentic for the OP.

Me, too! For my edification, could you post one or two of yours that comes closest to this one?

[Directly]

The Baseball Player does resembles Ruth, except the player shown is batting right handed ?? (if that matters)

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Directly

The Baseball Player does resembles Ruth, except the player shown is batting right handed ?? (if that matters)

Good catch on that.

Someone with experience emailed me about that stating:

"2) turning Ruth around and making him a right-handed batter is exactly the kind of thing a graphic designer in 1934 would do, to make the image work with his/her design - but also exactly the kind of detail that a forger would NOT do - I think a forger would turn it around."

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Directly

The Baseball Player does resembles Ruth, except the player shown is batting right handed ?? (if that matters)

Or is that supposed to be showing Ruth at the END of a swing?

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Me, too! For my edification, could you post one or two of yours that comes closest to this one?

I'm going to shot some pics of mine.