Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[Huysmans]

So many touting what's best for everyone....
try this, just worry about YOU, and let OTHERS decide what's best for THEM.

A complicated concept for some regulars on here apparently....

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't understand the issue some have with those who choose not to get vaccinated. Perhaps they've never heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't understand the issue some have with those who choose not to get vaccinated. Perhaps they've never heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Speaking neutrally, I think the issue is that we've been told that people who refuse to be vaccinated -- if there are enough of them -- could prevent the achievement of so-called herd immunity. In other words, framed this way, an individual's choice affects more than the individual.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speaking neutrally, I think the issue is that we've been told that people who refuse to be vaccinated -- if there are enough of them -- could prevent the achievement of so-called herd immunity. In other words, framed this way, an individual's choice affects more than the individual.

I doubt it would prevent the achievement of herd immunity, since this could be obtained in theory by everyone contracting the virus and becoming immune that way. But it could impact the way and time that herd immunity occurs. Specifically it could slow the spread and allow for more variations of the virus if it happens over a longer period of time (or not). Similar to the 'game of life', where either overconcentration or underpopulation could wipe out an organism. No masks/quarantining could end this much quicker with a faster but with a devastating spread. Slowing the spread could keep it around much longer but with less devastation (again, or not). The real problem is trying to determine the right balance to reduce or isolate the spread.

We don't have enough people presenting all sides in a neutral way, so your point is well appreciated.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by tschock

Similar to the 'game of life', where either overconcentration or underpopulation could wipe out an organism. No masks/quarantining could end this much quicker with a faster but with a devastating spread. Slowing the spread could keep it around much longer but with less devastation (again, or not). The real problem is trying to determine the right balance to reduce or isolate the spread.

I tend to agree. When the idea of "flattening the curve" came out, the one possible graph showed more deaths, but over a longer period of time to ease the burden on hospitals. So although it would have been devasting right away, it seems like it would less overall.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I tend to agree. When the idea of "flattening the curve" came out, the one possible graph showed more deaths, but over a longer period of time to ease the burden on hospitals. So although it would have been devasting right away, it seems like it would less overall.

That "one possible graph" was for a scenario in which a vaccine is not available and millions upon millions die in this country alone over the next couple of years.

Herd-immunity through everybody getting the actual Covid virus, instead of just getting a vaccine that has an even moderate efficacy rate, is Anti-vaxxer madness.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The intersection of individual freedom and public health is inevitably going to be a battleground and perhaps more than ever before we're seeing that now.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't understand the issue some have with those who choose not to get vaccinated. Perhaps they've never heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Ever known anyone who contracted polio or smallpox lately?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Ever known anyone who contracted polio or smallpox lately?

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?

Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.

Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.

I am not judging anyone for their decision one way or the other.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?

Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

How many people have died of Covid?

I think this bears repeating.

This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them.

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

Honest to goodness? Yes, I am. I'll turn 50 years old in just under 2 months. I haven't been sick in over 45 years (since I was 5 years old). I don't get the flu. I don't catch common colds. I don't even get as much as the sniffles. The last time I was at the doctor was in 1994 when I was required to take a physical to process out of the Army.

To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time).

[Peter_Spaeth]

When it works well -- and of course in many individuals it doesn't -- the human immune system is a wonder to behold.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Honest to goodness? Yes, I am. I'll turn 50 years old in just under 2 months. I haven't been sick in over 45 years (since I was 5 years old). I don't get the flu. I don't catch common colds. I don't even get as much as the sniffles. The last time I was at the doctor was in 1994 when I was required to take a physical to process out of the Army.

To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time).

so in other words you are bruce willis from that terrible movie unbreakable with samuel jackson. pretty sweet. hope your good fortune continues.

[irv]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

How many people have died of Covid?

I think this bears repeating.

This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them.

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?

Great question, Dave. How many "have actually" died of covid?

Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that?
""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more"

Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid?
Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance?
Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything?
Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one.

And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work.

Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally.
https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

Great question, Dave. How many "have actually" died of covid?

Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that?
""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more"

Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid?
Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance?
Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything?
Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one.

And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work.

Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally.
https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho

"Liberal Shaming Tactics?"

You're the one who just made it political, and you're not really interested in answers to any of your questions, so I'm just going to assume they're all rhetorical and not waste my time. You've already made up your mind. No amount of data or hand-wringing from my end will change that.

I didn't call anybody in this thread an anti-vaxxer. Earlier I used the term "anti-vaxxer nonsense" regarding a crazy theory espousing herd immunity through spreading the actual virus to the entire population rather then locking down or quarantining, or wearing masks. A theory that became obsolete the second a vaccine became available.

That said, are you an anti-vaxxer or not? You're espousing typical anti-vaxxer arguments and views, but don't want to be called an anti-vaxxer. You're certainly not a pro-vaxxer. Is neutral-vaxxer a more acceptable term for you? How about anti-covid-vaxxer? Is that specific enough?

I'll leave with an anecdote from my personal life:

Late Spring/Early Summer of last year I politely asked a couple of plumbers to put a mask on before they came in our house to give a quote. I explained that my wife had lost both her parents to Covid just weeks earlier, and was going to be a bit sensitive about the issue. We would even provide a mask for them, if they didn't have they're own.

You know what one of them did when I mentioned both my wife's parents had died of Covid? He rolled his eyes at me, spit in my driveway, lit a cigarette, and got back in his truck.....then his boss nonchalantly threw on a bandana, came in and looked at our sink, gave us a quote, and left after telling us he wouldn't do any job if he had to wear a mask.

I hate myself to this day for not kicking both of those guys in the ass and off of my property right away. I was so shocked and demoralized by the situation, I thought I had done something wrong. I thought I had to cow-tow and be polite to these assholes, because it would be impossible to find another plumber on short notice in our little town.

Turns out I found another company the very next day, who said they would wear a goddamn scuba outfit if I asked them to.

Shock, turned to shame, which turned to anger.

So, sorry. I decided I'm done being polite (or neutral) to people who don't give two craps about me, or mine, or others around them. Especially when they're so often, so very loud, and outspoken, and opinionated, and unpolite, about their own beliefs and freedoms.



Do you think these numbers from January were manufactured out of thin air?

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?
Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

...that went completely over your head, didn't it...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

...that went completely over your head, didn't it...

...about as much as my response went over yours...

[doug.goodman]

I got my second shot yesterday.

As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11.

So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March.

Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year.