National may be in peril

[chalupacollects]

[QUOTE=JollyElm;2096308]Be careful what you wish for...

Went Tried to go to a card show today here in Northern California. These types of (relatively small) shows are generally pretty well attended, but nothing too crazy. But today, due to the pandemic, it was an absolute nightmare. We arrived at about 9:30 for a 9 to 4 show at The Marriott. Pulling into the hotel, we saw there wasn't a single parking spot available, so we drove around in continuous loops waiting for something to suddenly open up. One finally did. Woo frickin' hoo! Approaching the entrance, we saw a line the likes of which I have never seen at one of these card shows before, with hundreds and hundreds of people snaking around the side of the venue, bending into every possible nook between dumpsters and construction trucks and whatever else. I talked to the guy at the door to see what was going on, perhaps there was a player signing autographs or something?? Nope, just a regular show. Owing to the current state of affairs, only 200 people (including the vendors) were allowed in at a time. My response to him was a simple, "This isn't like a supermarket where you go in, grab your stuff and leave. People looking at cards STAY and look at cards, usually for a whole bunch of hours." He replied, "Yup, I know," and told me the wait to get in would be at least two hours. Saying screw it, I joined the throngs of people on line to see if the wait time wasn't overestimated (knowing full well it was UNDERestimated). I kept staring at the people in the far distance near the beginning of the line, and decided to focus on a fellah I dubbed 'Barney Blue Jacket' (although his name was probably Mike or Bob or something). After 45 minutes, 'Barney Blue' was in the exact same spot. The line in front of me moved a bunch of times, but it was just a false positive with people scrunching up closer and closer together while the actual number of people between me and the mirage known as the door hadn't changed one bit. Nobody left the show, so no one 'new' was allowed inside. And again, there were hundreds of people in front of me. It would be countless hours before my number was called (and everything I would've hoped to buy would've already been snatched up regardless of the ridiculous pricing) and realized my only option was to bail. We left and went to eat, hit a dollar store and then Walmart, and eventually headed back to The Marriott. The line looked exactly the same (didn't even bother looking for 'B.B. Jacket' this time), so we ventured out again to check out the environs of Travis Air Force Base and walk around town a bit. By now it's closing in on 1PM and we once again headed back to the show...so take a wild guess what the situation was. The line hadn't moved at all, so home I went.

Long, boring story for nothing except to vent, but I can only imagine what kind of f_ckfest a large show will be if the same protocols are in place. Yowza.


For the few small shows in NJ/NY area that came off recently it was the same experience. Long, overcrowded lines that didn't move. People with "early arrival" passes getting screwed also because occupancy limits included dealer personnel not being able to get inside. Wait times in excess of 2 hours plus to approach the door.

That said there is no way the national will be allowed to let 30-50k people in an enclosed venue to mill around without following 6 foot spacing and masking protocols. Wait times to get in will be very lengthy unless time limits are put on people inside of say an hour or two at a time to rotate people through the show. Thus people will have travelled many miles, paid for a hotel room and tickets, food and beverage and see nothing. Because as mentioned above collectors are browsers and will hang around.

If the weather is nice - Soldier field? Under giant tents and out doors less restrictive since there has been no scientific proof of outdoor transmission.

[Gnep31]

If a vaccination is required then why would occupancy limits be in place???

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Gnep31

If a vaccination is required then why would occupancy limits be in place???

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

No, but the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have been shown to be remarkably effective against a vaccinated person getting infected and even more so prevent death.

I work in an environment in which there was a really bad outbreak. After a program of shutdown, testing, isolating positives, vaccinations (mostly P&M), temperature checks on entry to the grouds, mandated masking and constant testing since re-opening there have been ZERO positives since Dec 26 among employees or family.

Perhaps card show promoters can move to some kind of timed entry system (sell tickets for 2 hour blocks or something) to mitigate the lines. Otherwise I could see some enterprising folks selling out of their trunks in the parking lots!

As with my work, it was always a process. As the Marines say, "improvise, adapt, overcome". We have to work closely with the County Health Dept and despite the red tape, we've been able to stay in business and keep everyone safe at the same time.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

Neither are masks or social distancing. Ultimately if you go to a show you are saying I know I am at risk and possibly putting others at risk. Attend at your own discretion and to each his own. At this point I doubt many people attending any events or shows are uneducated about the risk involved. I've been going to toy shows all over the country for over a year now and finally caught the virus right here in my little town of 3000 people. I practiced all the protocols religiously since I have a compromised immune system but still caught it. You can't run from it and because the vaccine isn't 100% effective eventually everyone will have had or will have it unless you haven't left your house for two years. Not everyone is getting the vaccine either. I know one person that hasn't left the house but six times the entire last year.

[packs]

I think that sentiment has a fatal flaw though. The issue with this virus is that it can be transmitted to people who haven't assume the risk. That's the danger of it. You are welcome of course to have your own stance on behaviors but ultimately your behavior can affect other people's health who haven't assumed the same risks.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by packs

I think that sentiment has a fatal flaw though. The issue with this virus is that it can be transmitted to people who haven't assume the risk. That's the danger of it. You are welcome of course to have your own stance on behaviors but ultimately your behavior can affect other people's health who haven't assumed the same risks.

So practice a rule of, oh, I don't know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Maybe with a dash of love thy neighbor as thyself? Hmm...

[packs]

My general rule during the pandemic has been to behave in a way that makes other people around me feel safe and not necessarily act on what I personally consider to be ok for myself.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

So practice a rule of, oh, I don't know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Maybe with a dash of love thy neighbor as thyself? Hmm...

That's old school my friend. If the pandemic has shown me anything it is that there is a significant # of docs and nurses and first responders who are wonderful human beings putting themselves on the line to care for others, and a larger -- much larger -- portion of the population that are 100% selfish pricks who don't give a shit about anyone and think the world revolves around whatever their particular views and desires are.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by packs

I think that sentiment has a fatal flaw though. The issue with this virus is that it can be transmitted to people who haven't assume the risk. That's the danger of it. You are welcome of course to have your own stance on behaviors but ultimately your behavior can affect other people's health who haven't assumed the same risks.

People who smoke around people who don't put people at risk who haven't assumed it

People who text (or talk depending on how) while they drive put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who produce and promote the myriad food offerings that contribute largely to chronic disease in what is supposed to be the richest, most technologically advanced country in the world put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who send their children to school when they have a fever, are sneezing, coughing, etc. put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who create large amounts of unnecessary waste including using an excessive amount of plastic and treating non renewable resources as their privilege put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

Because covid is acutely present and "interrupting our lives" all of a sudden "the greater good" is a priority?! Please.

These came quickly off the top of my head - I am sure there are MANY more things that are done and ignored daily that puts people who haven't assumed it , at risk. Injecting something that has the possibility of harm (however small and without a guarantee of 100% effectiveness) must be a choice.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by hcv123

People who smoke around people who don't put people at risk who haven't assumed it

People who text (or talk depending on how) while they drive put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who produce and promote the myriad food offerings that contribute largely to chronic disease in what is supposed to be the richest, most technologically advanced country in the world put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who send their children to school when they have a fever, are sneezing, coughing, etc. put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who create large amounts of unnecessary waste including using an excessive amount of plastic and treating non renewable resources as their privilege put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

Because covid is acutely present and "interrupting our lives" all of a sudden "the greater good" is a priority?! Please.

These came quickly off the top of my head - I am sure there are MANY more things that are done and ignored daily that puts people who haven't assumed it , at risk. Injecting something that has the possibility of harm (however small and without a guarantee of 100% effectiveness) must be a choice.

Doesn't make any of those things right. With your logic, why not drink and drive? Just making a choice for personal freedom that puts others at risk. If I happen to skid my car into some kids waiting at a school crossing, well, that is just the consequence of my choice, so deal with it, don't get MADD at me.

Drunk drivers are assholes. Parents who send a sick kid to school...assholes. People who text while driving...assholes. People who smoke in non-smoking areas...assholes. You get my drift?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by hcv123

People who smoke around people who don't put people at risk who haven't assumed it

People who text (or talk depending on how) while they drive put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who produce and promote the myriad food offerings that contribute largely to chronic disease in what is supposed to be the richest, most technologically advanced country in the world put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who send their children to school when they have a fever, are sneezing, coughing, etc. put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

People who create large amounts of unnecessary waste including using an excessive amount of plastic and treating non renewable resources as their privilege put people at risk who haven't assumed it.

Because covid is acutely present and "interrupting our lives" all of a sudden "the greater good" is a priority?! Please.

These came quickly off the top of my head - I am sure there are MANY more things that are done and ignored daily that puts people who haven't assumed it , at risk. Injecting something that has the possibility of harm (however small and without a guarantee of 100% effectiveness) must be a choice.

You forgot the irony of ironies. People who lead sedentary lives and haven't taken care of their own health up to this point by eating properly, exercising, and doing the other things to stay healthy in the first place, now want other people to protect them from themselves while ignoring their previously poor life/health decisions.

This list is much larger than those who are at risk through no fault of their own.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

We are never going to a card show, concert, amusement park etc again if that is what it takes for these events to happen.

My point was no matter what you can still get it. Vaccine, no vaccine, having had COVID already, staying at home, practicing protocol to a T, etc. With that said people have to make their own decisions of what to go do. On the other hand the world can't come to a halt waiting for this to go away. It may never go away completely. I wasn't telling people what to do or even suggesting what people should do. Also didn't say I was a super spreader as people jumped to that conclusion. LOL.

Originally Posted by the-illini

We are never going to a card show, concert, amusement park etc again if that is what it takes for these events to happen.

I know several healthcare workers and first responders who haven't and won't get the vaccine. It's not just selfish pricks. Some people are scared and for good reason. Risks are low but they are there. If we wait until everyone is vaccinated nothing will ever happen. Events can and should go on with protocols and people can make their own decisions. If you don't want to go don't go. Simple.

[Gnep31]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

I do...sorry the sarcasm in my message didn't come through

Even if I ever do get the shot I wouldn't go to the National just for the fact they are requiring proof.

I saw a meme about a week ago that went something like this...

How many times have you heard someone say they did their research before choosing one of the vaccines?

Unfortunately, what they don't realize, is they are the research.

[ullmandds]

That's fine...and that's your prerogative. I have a friend or two with your mindset.

I don't think this is anything new, either. Historically whenever a new virus/pandemic happens there are always skeptics.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Gnep31

I do...sorry the sarcasm in my message didn't come through

Even if I ever do get the shot I wouldn't go to the National just for the fact they are requiring proof.

I saw a meme about a week ago that went something like this...

How many times have you heard someone say they did their research before choosing one of the vaccines?

Unfortunately, what they don't realize, is they are the research.

One bit of misinformation: The NSCC has specifically noted they are NOT requiring vaccines. This is from an NSCC Facebook post.

1. We are not planning to move this year’s event to Texas or Florida
2. We are not planning to require proof of vaccination to attend.
3. We will announce autograph guests as they are confirmed by TriStar.
4. We will adhere to the guidelines provided by the State of Illinois and the City of Rosemont

Regards
Rich

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Gnep31

Unfortunately, what they don't realize, is they are the research.

Yeah that's true to some extent...obviously rushing a vaccine to the market in less than a year isn't ideal. But neither is letting COVID ravage the globe for years. There are no easy answers to a global pandemic.

Originally Posted by hammertime

Yeah that's true to some extent...obviously rushing a vaccine to the market in less than a year isn't ideal. But neither is letting COVID ravage the globe for years. There are no easy answers to a global pandemic.

Well said.

[perezfan]

Maybe we should all attend the National as "Bubble Boys". Then we can ditch the masks and vaccinations, so everyone can be at ease...

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Yeah that's true to some extent...obviously rushing a vaccine to the market in less than a year isn't ideal. But neither is letting COVID ravage the globe for years. There are no easy answers to a global pandemic.

Very true. Considering how polarizing so many things related to COVID have become (vaccines, masks, etc), the fact the the US has administered the most vaccine shots of any country is amazing. While the vaccines were definitely approved in significantly less time than vaccines normally would be, the hope is (and the results so far show) that the benefits outweigh the risks. Even with the J&J vaccine, the risk of blood clots caused by the vaccine is much lower than the risk of blood clots caused by getting COVID.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Very true. Considering how polarizing so many things related to COVID have become (vaccines, masks, etc), the fact the the US has administered the most vaccine shots of any country is amazing. While the vaccines were definitely approved in significantly less time than vaccines normally would be, the hope is (and the results so far show) that the benefits outweigh the risks. Even with the J&J vaccine, the risk of blood clots caused by the vaccine is much lower than the risk of blood clots caused by getting COVID.

Assuming that the longer times a 'normal' approval would take really mitigates the risk. Maybe the 'new normal' (as the phrase goes) should be faster approvals? Or maybe that every single drug commercial has the caveat of 'do not take this drug if you are allergic to it' might be an indicator as to where we think we need to be with mitigating risk?

Originally Posted by jayshum

Very true. Considering how polarizing so many things related to COVID have become (vaccines, masks, etc), the fact the the US has administered the most vaccine shots of any country is amazing. While the vaccines were definitely approved in significantly less time than vaccines normally would be, the hope is (and the results so far show) that the benefits outweigh the risks. Even with the J&J vaccine, the risk of blood clots caused by the vaccine is much lower than the risk of blood clots caused by getting COVID.

Exactly right. Better than the alternative of having COVID. I've had both COVID and the vaccines. There are small risks with every vaccine. Nothing is 100%. Birth control pills aren't even 100%. Not even sure what the argument on here except someone wants to always have the last word. LOL. Bottom line is if you are worried about the risk don't go. Have the convention for those who can go and want to go. If that bothers you stay home and feel good that you have advised everyone else on how to handle the pandemic.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you DO know the vaccine isn't 100% effective?

So whats the end game then? If nothing is 100% effective will we just have masks and restrictions in place for the rest of time?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

So whats the end game then? If nothing is 100% effective will we just have masks and restrictions in place for the rest of time?

I think the hope is that as a significant number of people get vaccinated and as treatments improve, it will be something that can be lived with (like the flu) without significant restrictions in place. Although in some Asian countries, mask wearing when someone is sick has been common practice which is likely part of the reason the spread wasn't as bad in places like South Korea and Japan than it was in the US.

[Johnny630]

It's amazing how many people blindly acquiesce to losing their freedoms.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It's amazing how many people blindly acquiesce to losing their freedoms.

what "freedoms" might you be referring to?

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think the hope is that as a significant number of people get vaccinated and as treatments improve, it will be something that can be lived with (like the flu) without significant restrictions in place. Although in some Asian countries, mask wearing when someone is sick has been common practice which is likely part of the reason the spread wasn't as bad in places like South Korea and Japan than it was in the US.

There will be many, many people who will never get vaccinated. If that is the hope it'll never be over. I know at least 10 people who will never get it in just my group of close friends. They all have their own personal reasons. Unlike others I respect that and they respected my decision to get it.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

There will be many, many people who will never get vaccinated. If that is the hope it'll never be over. I know at least 10 people who will never get it in just my group of close friends. They all have their own personal reasons. Unlike others I respect that and they respected my decision to get it.

I’m fine with anyone who doesn’t want to get it. But I do think they should be denied medical care should they need it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.