Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Following up the conversation in another thread. I've now had delivery of a few pennants that I ordered including the 1940s Boston Braves Pennants.

I bought 2 of the same 1940s pennant. As expected the wonky spine on one of them ironed out easily. The reason why the spine looked funny was because one side of the spine isn't attached to the pennant. I've added photos of the back of the pennants where the spine is attached.

Am I right that these look like the spines have been re-sewn. (I don't have a problem with it either way...they didn't cost much.)

Looks original to me ... hold up to a light and see if there are holes from a previous stitch. These pennants of still unknown origin/maker are very cool but sometimes have production issues with the spine, including two pieces sewn continuously as one.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hi Marc...

Great Astros pennant. Impossible to find the white cloth version in that great condition with no holes or soiling. Really a beautiful example.

To answer your question... Yes, I do have the elusive 1914 Matty World Tour Pennant. But mine is a unique mustard yellow version. I have never seen this unusual color on any other pennant. Hopefully the annoying sideways pic at least portrays the color accurately.

And to Greg's point, the extended spine is another pretty unique feature. I have seen similar elongated spines (in lieu of tassels) on auto/boat/cycle racing pennants from the teens... a short lived phenomenon, for sure. Attached is a pic of an oversized teens Tacoma Tigers pennant with a similar extended spine (albeit to a lesser extent).

Congrats to Greg for landing the Matty pennant in REA. It was my favorite piece in the entire auction (biased, though I am!)

Thanks Mark, very STOKED to finally own this!! I’ve followed it from auction to auction and proud to say it isn’t going anywhere......👍🏼👍🏼

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Looks original to me ... hold up to a light and see if there are holes from a previous stitch. These pennants of still unknown origin/maker are very cool but sometimes have production issues with the spine, including two pieces sewn continuously as one.

Thanks. The one that has only one line of stitching on the spine seems to have holes in the spine where it was previously stitched. A light from the back seems to indicate that there was once stitching there too. So for some reason someone removed one line of stitching from spine.

[erikc21]

I haven’t posted any pennants recently, but below are some I’ve obtained over the last few months.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Erik,
That Muskies pennant is incredible. I’ve never seen one. I don’t really look for Muskies stuff, but have some items. I pretty much stick to Mpls Lakers stuff. That Maple Leafs one is really nice too. Some of those used to have a team photo stapled on top where the box is. Others came without. Both had the same writing or print. Either way it awesome and in great shape for a white pennant.

[UKCardGuy]

I love that Phillies pennant Erik. It looks to be in great condition. Very nice pickup.

[thetahat]

Phillies pennant is extremely rare, and very cool ...

[Fballguy]

Very nice dude...Never saw that Muskies before. It's getting harder and harder to say that about a pennant.

[bocca001]

That is a funky looking Phillies pennant. Love the Giants too.

[perezfan]

Awesome Erik!

Two "toughies" and two "impossibles". And amazingly, all four look to be in great condition. Great post, and it's nice to be back talking pennants!

[thetahat]

The Phillies pennant is from a distinct but not yet known series, identifiable by a thin coarse texture to the lettering. The Cinderella Boys Giants pennant and the 1954 Indians with the names inside a baseball are from the same maker, as is this Browns pennant. They are all pretty tough and the Phillies may be the toughest.

[ooo-ribay]

Four great pennants, Erik! If you ever get tired of the NY Giants, I’m your guy!

[erikc21]

Thanks, guys. I don’t know if you all agree, but finding rare pennants or ‘good deals’ seems harder and harder. Now, if I only had a display like Jordan!

Any examples of similar pennants to the Phillies and Browns series?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Thanks, guys. I don’t know if you all agree, but finding rare pennants or ‘good deals’ seems harder and harder. Now, if I only had a display like Jordan!

Any examples of similar pennants to the Phillies and Browns series?

Here are a couple more ...

[thetahat]

Have a question, but first this nice addition, got a good deal for it. Tigers had such cool pennants and I loved how they often show the year. Also it is the first 1940-dated pennant for me. It led me to write down the pennants I have with years/dates ... my oldest dated pennant is from 1913, and I have at least one from 1939 through 1969 now, with the exception of 1952 and 1953. It then occurred to me ... I don’t think I’ve seen any dated pennants of any type from 1952 or 53. No dated scroll pennants, and I don’t think there are any WS pennants that denote these years. The Tigers dated their pennants up to 1951, I believe.

Anyone have a 1952 or 1953 dated baseball pennant? Curious ...

[perezfan]

There is a 1952 dated scroll pennant for the Brooklyn Dodgers with the Clown mascot. But like so many others, I sold it a few years back. One of about 25 that I really regret selling.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Have a question, but first this nice addition, got a good deal for it. Tigers had such cool pennants and I loved how they often show the year. Also it is the first 1940-dated pennant for me. It led me to write down the pennants I have with years/dates ... my oldest dated pennant is from 1913, and I have at least one from 1939 through 1969 now, with the exception of 1952 and 1953. It then occurred to me ... I don’t think I’ve seen any dated pennants of any type from 1952 or 53. No dated scroll pennants, and I don’t think there are any WS pennants that denote these years. The Tigers dated their pennants up to 1951, I believe.

Anyone have a 1952 or 1953 dated baseball pennant? Curious ...

Nice pickup Greg... I sold that one too, a few months ago.

Amazing that you got a good deal on it.... prices are climbing fast, and seems impossible to win anything these days. Congrats- it's a beauty.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Have a question, but first this nice addition, got a good deal for it. Tigers had such cool pennants and I loved how they often show the year. Also it is the first 1940-dated pennant for me. It led me to write down the pennants I have with years/dates ... my oldest dated pennant is from 1913, and I have at least one from 1939 through 1969 now, with the exception of 1952 and 1953. It then occurred to me ... I don’t think I’ve seen any dated pennants of any type from 1952 or 53. No dated scroll pennants, and I don’t think there are any WS pennants that denote these years. The Tigers dated their pennants up to 1951, I believe. Anyone have a 1952 or 1953 dated baseball pennant? Curious ...

Amazing graphics! Replicating Cobb's charge into the stands to pummel a disabled heckler, perhaps?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

There is a 1952 dated scroll pennant for the Brooklyn Dodgers with the Clown mascot. But like so many others, I sold it a few years back. One of about 25 that I really regret selling.

Ugh yes I have the 1952, forgot about it! So that leaves 1953 as the missing link. (Three upper tassels on this one!)

[UKCardGuy]

I'm also partial to pennants with a date.

I recently picked up this 1957 Braves pennant. It's not the rarest but the condition was pretty good and the price was right.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I'm also partial to pennants with a date.

I recently picked up this 1957 Braves pennant. It's not the rarest but the condition was pretty good and the price was right.

Nice one, and a cool design. I like pennants with different ways of displaying player names besides the standard scroll.

Okay who knows what the oldest known scroll pennant is? My guess is the 1939 WS pennant, I think Mark owns it ....

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Have a question, but first this nice addition, got a good deal for it. Tigers had such cool pennants and I loved how they often show the year. Also it is the first 1940-dated pennant for me. It led me to write down the pennants I have with years/dates ... my oldest dated pennant is from 1913, and I have at least one from 1939 through 1969 now, with the exception of 1952 and 1953. It then occurred to me ... I don’t think I’ve seen any dated pennants of any type from 1952 or 53. No dated scroll pennants, and I don’t think there are any WS pennants that denote these years. The Tigers dated their pennants up to 1951, I believe.

Anyone have a 1952 or 1953 dated baseball pennant? Curious ...

Would this be the oldest dated pennant?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Would this be the oldest dated pennant?

Might be! Is that ‘06 or ‘08?

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Might be! Is that ‘06 or ‘08?

‘08

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Nice one, and a cool design. I like pennants with different ways of displaying player names besides the standard scroll.

Okay who knows what the oldest known scroll pennant is? My guess is the 1939 WS pennant, I think Mark owns it ....

That one has eluded me for many years... never owned one, unfortunately. I am experiencing brain fog, but do think that may be the earliest of all the "scroll" pennants.

Below is a pic containing the following year's World Series Pennant (also a double-scroll...)

[perezfan]

Here's the one we believe to be the first scroll pennant, featured 1 1/2 years ago in Hunt's...

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...ent=2019-11-08

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Here's the one we believe to be the first scroll pennant, featured 1 1/2 years ago in Hunt's...

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...ent=2019-11-08

And Gehrig is misspelled!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MK

And Gehrig is misspelled!

And so are Dahlgren and Vander Meer.... too funny. Simpler times, for sure.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Here's the one we believe to be the first scroll pennant, featured 1 1/2 years ago in Hunt's...

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...ent=2019-11-08

Do you know what that went for? Definitely has some condition issues.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

do you know what that went for? Definitely has some condition issues.

$900...I assume includes BP.

This one has to be a mistake...Just ended Saturday.

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=420&lot_qual=

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by MK

Would this be the oldest dated pennant?

Mike: How was this '08 Cubs pennant made? Sewed letter, or screen printed?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

$900...I assume includes BP.

This one has to be a mistake...Just ended Saturday.

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=420&lot_qual=

I’m too lazy to dig up my password to log in.

What did the Brooklyn one go for?

I get emails from most of the auction houses but only get catalogs from a few. I feel like I am probably missing things, but with my focus being only Giants, maybe I’m not.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I’m too lazy to dig up my password to log in.

What did the Brooklyn one go for?

I get emails from most of the auction houses but only get catalogs from a few. I feel like I am probably missing things, but with my focus being only Giants, maybe I’m not.

It's 2021! Computers can store your passwords you know.

Even the estimate seems way low for a pennant described in Excellent condition.

[MK]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Mike: How was this '08 Cubs pennant made? Sewed letter, or screen printed?

I don’t own it so I can’t say. I stole this photo from Heritage Auctions.

[perezfan]

The 1939 Double Scroll Pennant sold for $900 + $157.50 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $1,057.50

The Brooklyn Pennant sold for $2,000 + $350 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $2,350

Prices realized do not include sales tax and shipping.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The 1939 Double Scroll Pennant sold for $900 + $157.50 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $1,057.50

The Brooklyn Pennant sold for $2,000 + $350 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $2,350

Prices realized do not include sales tax and shipping.

Figured it had to be a typo but still seems on the low side. That one sold for nearly 6K at Lelands over a decade ago.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Mike: How was this '08 Cubs pennant made? Sewed letter, or screen printed?

Would be interesting to know, my understanding is that screenprinting wasn’t commercial until the early 1910s ....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The 1939 Double Scroll Pennant sold for $900 + $157.50 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $1,057.50

The Brooklyn Pennant sold for $2,000 + $350 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $2,350

Prices realized do not include sales tax and shipping.

So I’ve seen the double scroll WS pennant from 1939, 1940, and I have ‘41 and ‘47. Any other years known? I seem to recall a 1945 ...

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So I’ve seen the double scroll WS pennant from 1939, 1940, and I have ‘41 and ‘47. Any other years known? I seem to recall a 1945 ...

I've only seen the single-scroll Tigers version from 1945. Can't recall anything else off the top of my head, but would love to see a double-scroll example.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

It's 2021! Computers can store your passwords you know.

I don't trust that. I'd rather rely on my feeble mind....or not.

Originally Posted by perezfan

The 1939 Double Scroll Pennant sold for $900 + $157.50 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $1,057.50

The Brooklyn Pennant sold for $2,000 + $350 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $2,350

Prices realized do not include sales tax and shipping.

Whoa!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I don't trust that. I'd rather rely on my feeble mind....or not.

Let me guess...Your computer is a desk top. Beige in color, with the monitor adorned in a halo of Post It notes inscribed with all your passwords.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Let me guess...Your computer is a desk top. Beige in color, with the monitor adorned in a halo of Post It notes inscribed with all your passwords.

No, wise guy....brushed steel iMac....password hints are contained in a fake named document you would never suspect.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

No, wise guy....brushed steel iMac....password hints are contained in a fake named document you would never suspect.

Can I guess? Is it entitled, "My top 10 favorite Dodger players"?

Did I nail it??

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Can I guess? Is it entitled, "My top 10 favorite Dodger players"?

Did I nail it??

It would have to be something the identify thief wouldn't want to look in. He may be a Dodgers fan. Something like..."Rosie O'Donnell Nudes"

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

It would have to be something the identify thief wouldn't want to look in. He may be a Dodgers fan. Something like..."Rosie O'Donnell Nudes"

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Thanks, guys. I don’t know if you all agree, but finding rare pennants or ‘good deals’ seems harder and harder. Now, if I only had a display like Jordan!

Any examples of similar pennants to the Phillies and Browns series?

Here’s another pennant that seems to be from the same manufacturer, based on the texture of the screened letters. Boring but rare pennant

[ooo-ribay]

Have "we" (Domer) established who made these? I have quite a few variations with "overlapping" characteristics. I'm pretty sure the batter in the big ball was previously done as a Brooklyn pennant.

BTW - my BIL PDF'ed Kyle's blog into a 349 page document. I can't imagine what the copy center will want to print it in color. Let me see if it's worthwhile and I could probably send it to anyone who wants a copy. I envision a binder, with tabs for each manufacturer.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Have "we" (Domer) established who made these? I have quite a few variations with "overlapping" characteristics. I'm pretty sure the batter in the big ball was previously done as a Brooklyn pennant.

BTW - my BIL PDF'ed Kyle's blog into a 349 page document. I can't imagine what the copy center will want to print it in color. Let me see if it's worthwhile and I could probably send it to anyone who wants a copy. I envision a binder, with tabs for each manufacturer.

I think they fit the mold of those pennants that were displayed in that banquet picture someone posted awhile back, although these Giants pennants may be older. I believe the batter graphic is the same as that on the Phillies pennant.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Have "we" (Domer) established who made these? I have quite a few variations with "overlapping" characteristics. I'm pretty sure the batter in the big ball was previously done as a Brooklyn pennant.

I'm certain the first one is by Trench. Trench definitely used that quirky font in the 1950s. And, that baseball/moon-lit batter artwork is a known Trench design, too. We know it was used by Trench ca. 1950--Rick Levy found/posted a 1949 photo documenting this fact. I've seen it on many a Brooklyn Dodger pennant; but, never on a post-1958 Los Angeles Dodgers pennant. It was always monochrome when used on Brooklyn pennants. It was also used on some Yankees and Phillies pennants from what I assume to be the same era. Of note: the Phillies pennant was polychrome.

Interestingly, there's no New York Giants pennant featuring this moon-lit batter artwork; only San Francisco.

As to the others, the problem, for me, is that those latter SF Giants pennants in your evolution don't really look anything like what Trench was making for other teams in the 1960s--especially as concerns stadium pennants. The coloring, in particular, looks like it was applied with water colors, or a very translucent ink. It's also quite vibrant. Most likely these are by Trench, too; but ... I guess you couldn't exclude a copy cat by some bay area pennant maker that only made Giants pennants, right?

I just can't think of other Trench-made baseball pennants from the 1960s that resemble these....

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Here’s another pennant that seems to be from the same manufacturer, based on the texture of the screened letters. Boring but rare pennant

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?




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