REA Aution guess what goes for the most

[MR RAREBACK]

this is going to be tuff

[wazoo]

T206 Cross Tolstoi is going to set a record...not compared to the others...but exciting to watch.

[pokerplyr80]

The Ruth is the only one I could even make an educated guess as to the value, and even though I've been keeping an eye on recent sales prices they are still hard to predict.

[Jason]

Goudey Ruth, but wouldn't be surprised by any of the four honestly nowadays.

[rats60]

I remember buy a case of the SP Authentic Golf for $300. I guess I should have kept it sealed instead of having fun opening it trying to hit the Tiger.

[G1911]

I'm surprised by the Brown's current price, for a non-major sport card. I've either way underpaid for similar T cards or this price is already awfully high. Gorgeous set, fairly undervalued until a few years ago when it seemed the 4 baseball players really drove broader interest than these issues normally get.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm surprised by the Brown's current price, for a non-major sport card. I've either way underpaid for similar T cards or this price is already awfully high. Gorgeous set, fairly undervalued until a few years ago when it seemed the 4 baseball players really drove broader interest than these issues normally get.

You do realize there's only maybe a handful of this card in existence right?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You do realize there's only maybe a handful of this card in existence right?

I’m with him on the Brown card. They are great cards that I have collected for years but they just don’t have the widespread appeal that this price would indicate. Never in a million years would I think a card of a non-baseball (or major 4-sport) from the T227 set bring this kind of money. The multi-sport sets from this era have never been that popular, the baseball players (when present) being the obvious exception. If I am being honest I feel there has been a bit of a PR move on this set on this forum and elsewhere from some that own these cards to pump them up. Not too many people even know that the T227 Brown card is anything special, especially in the Non-Sports card world where a lot of the T218-T227-T229 multi-sport issues are collected and hoarded. There may be more out there than you think when those collections get broken down someday.

The T229 Kopec/Pet sets are some of my favorite and infinitely tougher than the T227’s.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

But the baseball players and boxers drive the popularity of the set in general (and it's gorgeous) so if you want to complete a set you NEED Brown. There are more people who want a set than there are Brown cards. Pretty basic economics.

I look at T220 Silver Border and you'd think "well the two key cards in that set are about as rare as the Brown, so they should go for as much" But even though I personally love the T220 Silvers the amount of people trying to complete sets is probably not even a dozen because it's ONLY boxing.

If there was a similar set with ONLY Race Car Drivers, Track Athlete's and Pool Players with one super rare card it would likely sell for even less than the T220 rarities, because those sports rank even lower than boxing in popularity.

The baseball cards drive the overall demand, but then it spreads to the other cards because of set collecting. If the 4 baseball players weren't in the set you'd have never heard of the Brown card.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

But the baseball players and boxers drive the popularity of the set in general (and it's gorgeous) so if you want to complete a set you NEED Brown. There are more people who want a set than there are Brown cards. Pretty basic economics.

I look at T220 Silver Border and you'd think "well the two key cards in that set are about as rare as the Brown, so they should go for as much" But even though I personally love the T220 Silvers the amount of people trying to complete sets is probably not even a dozen because it's ONLY boxing.

If there was a similar set with ONLY Race Car Drivers, Track Athlete's and Pool Players with one super rare card it would likely sell for even less than the T220 rarities, because those sports rank even lower than boxing in popularity.

The baseball cards drive the overall demand, but then it spreads to the other cards because of set collecting. If the 4 baseball players weren't in the set you'd have never heard of the Brown card.

I understand all of that. I collect nearly every multi-sport set there is and also collect non-sports cards.

Show me another set where any of the lesser sports rarity or not have a card that is of the non-major sports that have anything close to this level of interest. It just doesn’t exist, hence the incredulity.

There is no track record of this type of pricing on the Brown card until exactly this moment. I just find it all strange.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Show me another set where any of the lesser sports rarity or not have a card that is of the non-major sports that have anything close to this level of interest. It just doesn’t exist, hence the incredulity.

There is no track record of this type of pricing on the Brown card until exactly this moment. I just find it all strange.

Show me another multi-sport set with 4 baseball HOF'ers and a SERIOUS rarity in one of the non-baseball cards. This is a unicorn, plain and simple.

You haven't seen this kind of pricing on the Brown card before. I can't remember the last time I saw one for sale.

[Casey2296]

I'm curious what the 1893 "Just So" goes for, that's a pretty special card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You do realize there's only maybe a handful of this card in existence right?

Yes, I do realize that. There are many, many cards this rare worth far, far less than $23,000. $23,000 is one of the highest prices a rare low-grade non-major sport card has ever sold for. This is high price, I'm surprised it's this high so early. If you don't like that, oh well.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Show me another multi-sport set with 4 baseball HOF'ers and a SERIOUS rarity in one of the non-baseball cards. This is a unicorn, plain and simple.

You haven't seen this kind of pricing on the Brown card before. I can't remember the last time I saw one for sale.

I understand your stance on this card but until VERY recently this card was literally on nobody’s radar. It isn’t a widely known rarity nor does it have ANY historical mystique in the hobby to it. I understand that there appears to be a shift to it having this attention now but until maybe 6 months to a year ago nobody had this card on their radar with a price tag anywhere near this level attached to it.

It seems fishy to me that within 1 day of the REA being up I knew of no other card being in the auction other than the T227 Brown and I saw that mentioned at least 5 times by people on this forum, and that was BEFORE the price shot up to where it is at. Just seems really odd.

[RedsFan1941]

literally “nobody” had this card on their radar? talk about unbelievable hype.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I disagree that this card was unknown. I had 22 different Miner's Extra Backs in my first Pre War auction and I was asked a number of times before the auction even opened if I had the Brown. Then after the auction was running I got additional messages asking if I was sure there wasn't a Brown hiding somewhere (the near set was part of a "find" in Central PA) That's the only reason I chimed in, because I have first hand experience with at least a handful of guys who have been chasing this card for years.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

But the baseball players and boxers drive the popularity of the set in general (and it's gorgeous) so if you want to complete a set you NEED Brown. There are more people who want a set than there are Brown cards. Pretty basic economics.

I look at T220 Silver Border and you'd think "well the two key cards in that set are about as rare as the Brown, so they should go for as much" But even though I personally love the T220 Silvers the amount of people trying to complete sets is probably not even a dozen because it's ONLY boxing.

If there was a similar set with ONLY Race Car Drivers, Track Athlete's and Pool Players with one super rare card it would likely sell for even less than the T220 rarities, because those sports rank even lower than boxing in popularity.

The baseball cards drive the overall demand, but then it spreads to the other cards because of set collecting. If the 4 baseball players weren't in the set you'd have never heard of the Brown card.

exactly. well said.

[puckpaul]

I have most of the set (bought Halper's partial set in Sotheby's and set about finishing it because the cards are great looking and I like to finish sets) and have been looking for the Brown. I have posted here numerous times looking for the card, as have others. I have prodded one owner of the card I could find on Heritage with offers that were ignored.

now, that said, what price? always hard to say when there is one card, first auction in 11 years, and several interested buyers? maybe let it play out and see if it brings out a few others once they see the price?

why would people be hyping it? if there are that many that people want to hype it, then several more should be coming for auction soon, right?

aside from all that, there is money everywhere doing crazy things....this isn't all that strange when someone just paid $2.25mm for a Tom Brady card.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

But the baseball players and boxers drive the popularity of the set in general (and it's gorgeous) so if you want to complete a set you NEED Brown. There are more people who want a set than there are Brown cards. Pretty basic economics.

I look at T220 Silver Border and you'd think "well the two key cards in that set are about as rare as the Brown, so they should go for as much" But even though I personally love the T220 Silvers the amount of people trying to complete sets is probably not even a dozen because it's ONLY boxing.

If there was a similar set with ONLY Race Car Drivers, Track Athlete's and Pool Players with one super rare card it would likely sell for even less than the T220 rarities, because those sports rank even lower than boxing in popularity.

The baseball cards drive the overall demand, but then it spreads to the other cards because of set collecting. If the 4 baseball players weren't in the set you'd have never heard of the Brown card.

This post is completely spot on. I am a racing card collector, and the Fred Lorenzen with car card from the 1972 STP set has always been a white whale among racing cards. That card has taken some collectors of the '72 STP racing set 20 years to find (PSA has currently graded two copies of the card).

It has been several years since I have seen a Lorenzen with car card sell, but it was a $1,200-$1,500 card as of a few years ago. In today's market, the card would probably go for several thousand, but I very much doubt it would sell for $25,000+ because it is "just a racing set." The baseball players in T227 are driving the price of the Bruce Brown card.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I disagree that this card was unknown. I had 22 different Miner's Extra Backs in my first Pre War auction and I was asked a number of times before the auction even opened if I had the Brown. Then after the auction was running I got additional messages asking if I was sure there wasn't a Brown hiding somewhere (the near set was part of a "find" in Central PA) That's the only reason I chimed in, because I have first hand experience with at least a handful of guys who have been chasing this card for years.

Really good intel.. thanks for sharing!

I've learned to never put an estimate on cards that come up once every decade.

[insidethewrapper]

The Old Judge Deacon White Card.

[Pat R]

I don't think the "hyping" of the Brown card will have anything to do with
the final price. Most collectors have experienced or know it only takes two
people that really want an item or in Heritage and other AH's that allow
the consigners to bid on their items one person.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I don't think the "hyping" of the Brown card will have anything to do with
the final price. Most collectors have experienced or know it only takes two
people that really want an item or in Heritage and other AH's that allow
the consigners to bid on their items one person.

Exactly this. The implication that posts on Net54 and other message boards drove the price of a card that "was on no one's radar" to $23,000-plus in a few days is ridiculous and smells of sour grapes. Add the fact that the card is in REA, whose auctions are among the most anticipated in the hobby, and it's extremely believable that a card that's the white whale for a number of collectors could take off like a rocket. Especially when few can remember the last time one came up for public sale.

[ezez420]

First I want to say that this isn’t my card as I own the PSA 3 and highest grade out there.

I have no problem owning another because the demand for this card is extremely high. I have owned 3-4 sets in the last 5+ years and have handled 1 card which I own. I made this set years ago with both Miners and HLC backs and still in PSA registry.

There only seems to be a few of you that really seem to understand the true rarity of this set. I had kept it quiet and only told very few people about the card as I tried to obtain another. I saw David had one of these as he posted a few years ago and I tried to obtain. But he is basing on my knowledge of the card and my findings to hype more

Another fact that I will share is when the person broke up the #1 PSA set the only card he was missing was the Brown and he was willing to pay close to 5 figures for it then to me. I passed.

My info was based on what I had learned having handled 100+ of the T227 cards.

Scott is another person that can attest this card is never found that has handled many of these as well. He is active in the Nonsports world and the sports world and has handled 100+ of these. Only one has come up in auction in Heritage years ago and the other on eBay which are encapsulated now.

This has been the only card anyone has needed to complete their t227 sets. That’s because there are a couple more Rodgers out there that are raw or in Sgc holders and converted (IE mine used to be in an Sgc holder).

This card is one of the toughest Shortprints in the 20th century just like the 1935 Schutter Johnson Weightlifter, Lindstrom in the US Caramel and McKinley in US Caramel.

And the fact that it is part of the best art worked set in the early 20th that houses an in demand baseball set with Cobb, boxing set with Johnson and that Brown is a Pioneer in the racing world that died tragically when the set was made makes it that more elusive.


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[rhettyeakley]

Ed, good to hear your perspective.

I was probably a bit harsh when I made my comments earlier in this thread.

I am no “Newb” when it comes to this set and non-sports cards. I have owned a few near sets of this series and like most I needed the Brown and a few others when I was pursuing the set.

I know the set is popular and has had its loyal following for quite some time and I have sold several cards to Cliff and others to help them out with their sets and knew the cards that were considered “tough” cards (or more appropriately the “buy if you ever see them” cards)

I am just shocked that any card from a series like this (even with the baseball connection) could ever bring this type of money. The price point that this is going for is just completely unprecedented in the non-Big 4 sports card or Non-Sports card world. Other than baseball cards (and a select few hockey cards) there is just nothing in the entire T-card (or C-card) era that has ever come close to this type of pricing, and that includes crazy rarities like the Kopec Jack Johnson. Just a level of interest that really shocked a seasoned collector of both Sports and Non-Sports cards of many years.

Nobody is happier about some of the “outside of the mainstream” sets getting the recognition they probably deserve than I am. These are the kind of sets that I really love.

On a related note:
I found what I believe to be the only known large advertising poster (actually on thick stock) for the T227 set a few years back. When I shared that there was only a certain small number of people seemed to care which is maybe why I felt taken aback by the response to this rarity. I just didn’t realize there were that many T227 set collectors beyond the baseball and Jack Johnson cards that typically sold for pretty good money.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Ed, good to hear your perspective.

I was probably a bit harsh when I made my comments earlier in this thread.

I am no “Newb” when it comes to this set and non-sports cards. I have owned a few near sets of this series and like most I needed the Brown and a few others when I was pursuing the set.

I know the set is popular and has had its loyal following for quite some time and I have sold several cards to Cliff and others to help them out with their sets and knew the cards that were considered “tough” cards (or buy “buy if you ever see them” cards)

I am just shocked that any card from a series like this (even with the baseball connection) could ever bring this type of money. The price point that this is going for is just completely unprecedented in the non-Big 4 sports card or Non-Sports card world. Other than baseball cards (and a select few hockey cards) there is just nothing in the entire T-card (or C-card) era that has ever come close to this type of pricing, and that includes crazy rarities like the Kopec Jack Johnson. Just a level of interest that really shocked a seasoned collector of both Sports and Non-Sports cards of many years.

Nobody is happier about some of the “outside of the mainstream” sets getting the recognition they probably deserve than I am. These are the kind of sets that I really love.

On a related note:
I found what I believe to be the only known large advertising poster (actually on thick stock) for the T227 set a few years back. When I shared that there was only a certain small number of people seemed to care which is maybe why I felt taken aback by the response to this rarity. I just didn’t realize there were that many T227 set collectors beyond the baseball and Jack Johnson cards that typically sold for pretty good money.

can you share a picture of the poster? would like to see that. thanks!

[rhettyeakley]

I’ll have to dig through the pictures on my computer when I get home.

On a sad note on the poster. I found it on eBay years ago as a Buy It Now where the seller didn’t realize that it was related to a card set. I purchased it but they did a really bad job shipping and it was pretty damaged by the poor packing job. I still have all the pieces and it could be restored but I haven’t gotten around to it yet.

[rhettyeakley]

A little digging and I found the old thread...

https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=230223

I don’t know of any other set other than T227 with the Honest brand that this poster would be advertising. It is slightly? Trimmed in left side and think it may have been used as a backing in a picture frame or something which is why it was slightly trimmed and why it survived. It refers to swimmers specifically so it may have been a series of these featuring different sports or something along those lines.

[ezez420]

That is awesome Rhett. I see the pack posted is like the one I have. I have a couple vintage cigarette packs for this set (HLC & ME) but do you know how one can tell the pack houses a Card?



Ed


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[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by ezez420

That is awesome Rhett. I see the pack posted is like the one I have. I have a couple vintage cigarette packs for this set (HLC & ME) but do you know how one can tell the pack houses a Card?



Ed


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I don't know that would be possible simply from the pack itself, I could be wrong though.

You could try to date it I suppose but I have a feeling that unless you have a bunch from the same vintage source and open one to confirm I think it would all be speculation.

[MR RAREBACK]

Last day

[chadeast]

Babe took the crown as expected. $55k, $66k with the BP. Wow.

T227 leveled off at 23k, and the Upper Deck golf case went for 21k.

[bobbyw8469]

Did anyone else noticed the "altered" Jackie Robinson rookie PSA 7 that sold for 350k?!?!?!?! Looks like someone erased something to the left of Jackie's head on it.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by G1911

Yes, I do realize that. There are many, many cards this rare worth far, far less than $23,000. $23,000 is one of the highest prices a rare low-grade non-major sport card has ever sold for. This is high price, I'm surprised it's this high so early. If you don't like that, oh well.

Literally NOBODY bid, minutes after the card shot up, and was crossed posted on N54.


There are no such things as coincidences

[ezez420]

Well now I will own 2 Brown cards and I am a legitimate buyer.

I will be questioning the legitimacy though as I agree with Ted’s comments. If a card hasn’t surfaced in auction for 18 years and bidding stops after the posts then something is odd.

I will comment again on a future date when I have it. And if I don’t then will expose person playing games if so.



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[molenick]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Did anyone else noticed the "altered" Jackie Robinson rookie PSA 7 that sold for 350k?!?!?!?! Looks like someone erased something to the left of Jackie's head on it.

I won't comment on whether the Robinson rookie was altered, but it does look like that card is the new post-war king. A not perfectly but pretty well-centered PSA 7 52 Topps Mantle went for $264K and the Robinson went for 90K more. Maybe Robinson had already surpassed Mantle before this but this was PSA 7 vs. PSA 7 in the same auction. [I don't own either card, just commenting on the results.]

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Well now I will own 2 Brown cards and I am a legitimate buyer.

I will be questioning the legitimacy though as I agree with Ted’s comments. If a card hasn’t surfaced in auction for 18 years and bidding stops after the posts then something is odd.

I will comment again on a future date when I have it. And if I don’t then will expose person playing games if so.



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So it was you who won this card? And What’s the conspiracy?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Literally NOBODY bid, minutes after the card shot up, and was crossed posted on N54.


There are no such things as coincidences

Looks like it went up another $4,600 at the end.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Well now I will own 2 Brown cards and I am a legitimate buyer.

I will be questioning the legitimacy though as I agree with Ted’s comments. If a card hasn’t surfaced in auction for 18 years and bidding stops after the posts then something is odd.

I will comment again on a future date when I have it. And if I don’t then will expose person playing games if so.



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It's a very cool card. I'd love to see your other copy simply for the research and curiosity of how many are out there. I'm not a T227 collector but it's a fun exercise to track heavy rarities known populations over time and speculate how many are really out there. This was the 3rd Brown I've seen an image of

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by G1911

Looks like it went up another $4,600 at the end.

Final price shown includes the 20% BP. $23k + $4600 = $27600

[G1911]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Final price shown includes the 20% BP. $23k + $4600 = $27600

Ah, thank you.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by G1911

It's a very cool card. I'd love to see your other copy simply for the research and curiosity of how many are out there. I'm not a T227 collector but it's a fun exercise to track heavy rarities known populations over time and speculate how many are really out there. This was the 3rd Brown I've seen an image of

I like the T227 set as well. I think that it is an under-appreciated set.

erez420, congratulations on your pick up. I have images of 5 different Brown cards and would love to view an image of your other example to see if it is one that I already have or a new one.

[ezez420]

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[robertsmithnocure]

ezez420, thank you for posting the picture. I already had an image of your card, but it was before it was graded. Nice looking card.

[Kidnapped18]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

I like the T227 set as well. I think that it is an under-appreciated set.

erez420, congratulations on your pick up. I have images of 5 different Brown cards and would love to view an image of your other example to see if it is one that I already have or a new one.

+1
Extremely under appreciated set! Great pick up Ed!
Ed you are probably the expert when it comes to T227 Browns!

[Kidnapped18]

Quick search shows PSA has 4 examples listed: Ed owns the PSA 3 and PSA 2 (REA example)
Rif Ram has the PSA 1.5 listed in his set, John E. has a raw Brown possibly the PSA 1.

SGC shows 3 examples: SGC 1.5, SGC 1 and an SGC A

The Met Museum also has a raw example so that puts us at 8 possibly known examples

There maybe 1 or 2 more raw in private collections or "undiscovered" yet

I believe all the known examples are Honest Long Cuts as there are no Miners Extra examples...maybe Ed can confirm

Tony

[G1911]

Here's 2 of them counted in post 46, one from the Non-Sports board awhile back and the Burdick collection copy.

I'd love to see others, never sure how many in pop reports are real, unique cards vs. crossovers or resubmits. However many are known there are surely a number more extant. The T220 Silver Donovan was unknown until 2006, and now we are at 3-4 of them.

[ezez420]

I have yet to see or hear of a ME Brown or Rodgers. If they are SP cards then maybe the ME version came out later after the two cards were pulled.

Another thing I can confirm is that my Psa 3 was ungraded prior to me submitting and from what I know about the psa 2 it was also ungraded and never in an Sgc holder.

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[sb1]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Quick search shows PSA has 4 examples listed: Ed owns the PSA 3 and PSA 2 (REA example)
Rif Ram has the PSA 1.5 listed in his set, John E. has a raw Brown possibly the PSA 1.

SGC shows 3 examples: SGC 1.5, SGC 1 and an SGC A

The Met Museum also has a raw example so that puts us at 8 possibly known examples

There maybe 1 or 2 more raw in private collections or "undiscovered" yet

I believe all the known examples are Honest Long Cuts as there are no Miners Extra examples...maybe Ed can confirm

Tony

The Rif Ram #1 set is John Esch's set. I had them graded a couple of years ago, so the 1.5 and his raw card are one and the same. When the cards were graded PSA was extremely tough on most of them. Many appear a grade or two higher in hand.

[ezez420]

Thanks! PSA is extremely tough on this set compared to SGC. That sounds about right 1-2 grades lower than SGC.


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