Fraud in the hobby

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

A serious question I think about many times reading the board.

If you are one of those people who looks at the hobby and sees fraud at every turn, and chastises others for looking the other way and not caring as much as you think they should, why are YOU still in the hobby? If the negativity is that pervasive and has ruined everything, wouldn't it make sense to find another hobby that makes you a happier person?

I know we are live with this fraud thing hanging over the hobby to some degree. But if it the joy is gone for you, why stick around? Fraud is pervasive in the art world and all over the place. If just a source of great angst, why torture yourself?

I think, for some people that the drama of exposing fraud and subsequent finger pointing have become part of their hobby. You can get attention online (if your not blocked or ignored) and praise for "being the one to expose", even if its only the same 5-6 people who cheer you on every time. There's probably even a little feel good from virtue signaling to others because they are part of the problem for persisting on with collecting. It might say more about ones personal life to be this way if it does become their main connection to the hobby. Just my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

I think, for some people that the drama of exposing fraud and subsequent finger pointing have become part of their hobby. You can get attention online (if your not blocked or ignored) and praise for "being the one to expose", even if its only the same 5-6 people who cheer you on every time. There's probably even a little feel good from virtue signaling to others because they are part of the problem for persisting on with collecting. It might say more about ones personal life to be this way if it does become their main connection to the hobby. Just my opinion.

Speaking for myself and more importantly the guys I know on Blowout, to the extent you may be talking about us, that's an absolute crock of psychobabble. Nobody craves any drama or attention. It's done from a sincere desire to contribute as best we can to informing people and maybe, just maybe, helping in some small way to keep a lid on it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As to my friend Steve's original question, the answer is pretty simple. If you love something, you don't let fraudsters drive you away from it, you adapt. Do people abandon their families when they become a source of angst? Mostly not.

[Casey2296]

Dishonesty in any industry is always damaging, from Joe six-pack all the way up to the Elite collector, but is really damaging to the people in the hobby who conduct themselves with integrity and honesty. They get painted with the broad brush of Fraud along with the scumbags. The collector trust is broken on a large scale and turns into a guilty until proven innocent dynamic. I'd love to see how fast this industry sobers up if you sent a couple of folks to jail for even a couple of years, or if some company had to pay a large settlement in a class action lawsuit. Ruin the lives of a few shady characters in the hobby and they'll run to the darkness like the cockroaches they are. Will it happen? probably not, but count me in for bringing the popcorn if it does, so honest folk can enjoy watching them squirm while they role over on each other.

Personally, I applaud the efforts of Peter & the guys over at Blowout. Doing the Lord's work IMO.

[rjackson44]

Hi steve fraud will never end ,,art ,stocks ,cards ,sneakers,its been going in for 100s of years ,,never will it end ,,

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'd love to see how fast this industry sobers up if you sent a couple of folks to jail for even a couple of years. Ruin the lives of a few shady characters in the hobby and they'll run to the darkness like the cockroaches they are.

Like Bill Mastro, Doug Allen, John Rogers etc.? Didn't see much in the way of sobering up.

[Brian Van Horn]

"Fraud in the Hobby"

Redundant many the time.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Like Bill Mastro, Doug Allen, John Rogers etc.? Didn't see much in the way of sobering up.

The only way to move an elephant is to keep pushing, keep throwing them into jail, throw their wives and kids into jail too on conspiracy charges, they wont stick but if you've ever spent a night in jail you tend to reflect on your life a bit. Make it so painful to be dishonest that they'll think twice next time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Like Bill Mastro, Doug Allen, John Rogers etc.? Didn't see much in the way of sobering up.

Yeah, I'm not sure broadly speaking how much people who commit crimes are ever deterred by punishment to others. I think it may be inherent in the fraudster's character to think he is smarter and will get away with it.

Parenthetically, for me anyhow, talking to people with no apparent ethics (as I have in this hobby) can be downright disturbing. But it does give you insight into their character and conduct.

[Johnny630]

I believe the card doctors get a thrill over coning people.....this will never stop.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I believe the card doctors get a thrill over coning people.....this will never stop.

What's really galling is how some will con people who consider them friends. But this is the way of the criminal I suppose.

[Exhibitman]

Bottom line: most of the people I meet are good folks who enjoy similar interests and are fun to socialize with, and I still enjoy my collection. When that is not the case, I will walk away. Until then, I just try to steer clear of the worst aspects and worst asshats in the hobby.

There is fraud in many of my hobbies - cards, vintage autos and vintage toys like Star Wars and GI Joe. Like someone said when big money gets involved it just happens. There is always someone just out to make a few bucks at the expense of others. I've always shrugged it off and made sure I am as educated as I can be when purchasing items, particularly big ticket items. It is just a part of life and you can constantly complain or work hard to make sure you know what you are doing by reading and staying connected to online communities like this one that constantly educate and make folks aware of shysters.