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#1
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But there will always be purists in cards that do not believe that anything should be altered or restored. Same as with anything. Such as for years we are always hearing about the purists of baseball hating on this rule or that rule or players flipping bats or celebrating. It is just part of life. |
#2
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We are at a crossroads in this hobby - stop buying the high end nice stuff, or go ahead buy it and beware. I am having trouble wanting to buy the lower than "EX 5" stuff as that has always been my bottom line, but then the higher stuff could be doctored, ugh. And with todays ultra high prices, do I dare go after higher stuff anyway? Do I just keep what I have in vintage sports, call it good, and dabble in 1977 Star Wars cards and new Pokemon and the like for the rest of my collecting life?
And then I am hearing about buyers opening boxes in the mail from sellers and claiming nothing inside - or so they say, and demanding refunds. ebay always sides with the buyer. Makes me scared to even sell stuff anymore. |
#3
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At this Point the grading companies serve one purpose, to facilitate a higher sale...end of discussion that's all that matters.
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#4
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I like my CJ's "dirty", 100+ year old cards just don't look right when graded a 9.
- |
#5
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Things will change and evolve. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
#6
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-14-2021 at 04:29 PM. |
#7
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Peter its systemic nothing is ever going to change |
#8
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Right, nobody is going to come out and say I trimmed this card or removed creases or added color, which to me proves that all the talk about how it's acceptable in the hobby now is a crock.
If it was so acceptable there would be no need for deception.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-14-2021 at 04:56 PM. |
#9
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Is there a difference in whether or not a person is doing these things with the intention of selling it later? |
#10
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I know nobody Cares But another CJ Joe Jackson was discovered on Blowout the other day from a 4 SGC to a 7 SGC...
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1460488 Last edited by Johnny630; 04-16-2021 at 12:43 PM. |
#11
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Yawn. I guess Mr. Calderon, who clearly knows how to post here (see below), isn't going to this time. https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=calderon
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-17-2021 at 07:03 PM. |
#12
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Given time, most old scrapbooks will damage the cards. My wife and I are currently working on soaking a scrapbook of tradecards. A hobby where at least the pricing is similar to where baseball cards were 40 years ago. The pages made the cards brittle, and some have taken pretty serious damage. There's always a fine line between preservation/conservation and altering. That's also true in other hobbies. |
#13
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-17-2021 at 08:00 PM. |
#14
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"Peter its systemic nothing is ever going to change"
Then why even have grading? If an A is the same thing as a 10 (and it's deemed ok to transform any card into a 10), then where is the need for a TPG? And why is the valuation of a card graded "10" any higher than the one graded "A"? That logic would dictate that the prices realized should be about the same for each. |
#15
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Last edited by Johnny630; 04-14-2021 at 05:44 PM. |
#16
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One of the ones in the BODA thread is that someone tinkered with a $100,000K PSA 8 CJ Joe Jackson !!! and got an SGC 9/96 out of it.... What a tragedy (and what nerve).... I wonder if he cracked it... sharpened it and then resubmitted to PSA (without payoff) before settling for the SGC 96/9 (and a mere $26K profit)
The guy must have the steady hands of a Mohel* to even try this. * The man who performs circumcisions in Jewish tradition. |
#17
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__________________
'Integrity is what you do when no one is looking' "The man who can keep a secret may be wise, but he is not half as wise as the man with no secrets to keep” |
#18
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Obvious nobody involved cares. These are not passable trim jobs. I've spent the last year buying higher end cards in lower grades because authentic/unaltered 5 or 6's are going to become the premium if this continues. No evidence to suggest that any end is near. FAT BORDERS or BUST!
__________________
"Chicago Cubs fans are 90% scar tissue". -GFW |
#19
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My gut feel is that the new NFTs are going to ultimately replace cards, i.e new cards will not be released anymore, but NFTs will be released instead. This will ultimately mean no more new cards to trim, and it will greatly diminish the need for TPGs in the future. Unfortunately, we still have to deal with trimmed cards from the past.
I'm a vintage person, and I personally do not buy any card graded higher than a 4 or a 5. My rationale is really basic.....What was the highest graded Cobb in the Lucky 7 find? These cards supposedly were purchased and than stored in a bag all these years untouched, and the highest grade I believe was a 4.5. So I personally find it hard to believe that any card graded higher than a 5 or so from back than wasn't doctored to some degree. |
#20
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I love this stuff, too bad that the back up at the opinion sellers is so long. Did one of them double their rates to cut down on submissions? Good for them, same money for half the work, I need to double my own salary in my next tour budget.
Hahahaha, you graded guys all deserve what you get. The opinion sellers are laughing at you all on their way to the bank. Doug "correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the first paid opinion wrong?" Goodman |
#21
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I just find it incredible that a supposed professional grading company could, in this day and age, receive ANY prewar card with super sharp corners for grading and not immediately suspect trimming. Last edited by Pack The Ripper; 04-15-2021 at 12:25 AM. |
#22
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I suspect the great majority of these altered card are altered by methods that CAN be scientifically detected. Assuming this is the case, then it seems inevitable to me that it is just a matter of time before a TPG emerges that grades cards scientifically. By that I mean that besides the usual subjective assessment of aesthetic appearance, there will be a scientific component that uses certain objective scientific criteria (e.g., presence of foreign dyes, chemical differences between newly trimmed borders and borders that have been exposed to the environment for over 100 years) that will make the conclusion the card has been altered a scientific fact, as opposed to a mere opinion. Once we get to that stage, I simply don't see how a card that has been shown by that method to be altered can hold its value.
It wouldn't surprise me if someone is out there now working on just such a model. True it will take millions in startup capital to build such a startup, which capital will include the need to to buy slabbed high condition cards and expose them to be altered. And true it will take a market willingness to pay the hefty grading fees such a startup would need to charge in order to be profitable. But inasmuch as we are already well into 7-figure territory for desirable sports cards, what is spending an additional 4 or 5-figure cost to ensure the card is what it is represented to be? The economic impact of that to the purchaser would be the equivalent of the BP being raised by less than one point. And here might be the kicker. If, as has been speculated, much of the recent price rise is being fueled by funds regarding sport cards as investment vehicles and marketing them as such, then I would think in time such funds will put themselves at risk of violating their fiduciary obligation to their clients if they do not require that their sport card acquisitions be vetted by such a high tech grading method. As to the point that there will be insufficient demand for such a high-tech grading service since what creates the demand for sports cards is the number on the slab (as opposed to the "real" condition of the card), that may be the case now. But I do not see how that mentality will be able to sustain the market once such a new TPG enters the scene and enough currently slabbed cards are shown to be altered. Last edited by benjulmag; 04-15-2021 at 05:38 AM. |
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