Lajoie Rookie?

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t believe the hobby recognizes supplements (among other things) as “cards”. What constitute a rookie is an entirely different debate (and one worth having), but I think most recognize true cards, post cards, and cabinets as “rookie” worthy. I am not sure composites, pictures/photos, supplements qualify. One conundrum is the team PC- which is Ruth’s Rookie?

Only the Standard Biscuit is Ruth's Rookie Card. RC stands for Rookie Card, NOT supplements, newspaper clippings, post cards, Type 1/2 photos, ect. The Postcard is exactly what it says. Its meant to be mailed and thrown away, or can saved as memorabilia from a loved one of a favorite item or team. The Standard Biscuit card is meant to be collected and traded to complete a set or just have the most. People are just grasping for what ever money they can suck out of you all the time. Goldin Auctions knows very well what they are doing and I hope the owners realize that it's a supplement is not an actual RC.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Only the Standard Biscuit is Ruth's Rookie Card. RC stands for Rookie Card, NOT supplements, newspaper clippings, post cards, Type 1/2 photos, ect. The Postcard is exactly what it says. Its meant to be mailed and thrown away, or can saved as memorabilia from a loved one of a favorite item or team. The Standard Biscuit card is meant to be collected and traded to complete a set or just have the most. People are just grasping for what ever money they can suck out of you all the time. Goldin Auctions knows very well what they are doing and I hope the owners realize that it's a supplement is not an actual RC.

The National copper Plate was printed to be a set that was collected. Hence the bound volumes with them that could be ordered. It is not actually a supplement.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

The National copper Plate was printed to be a set that was collected. Hence the bound volumes with them that could be ordered. It is not actually a supplement.

but it is paper thin...so I guess it's not technically a "card". It needs to meet both criteria. It does have the benefit of being listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, so maybe that should be the criteria.

That said, I'd love to have the NCP of Wagner. Call me crazy, but I'd take the NCP over his E107 or W600 based on my definition and pursuit of each HOFer's "earliest collectible".

[rats60]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

but it is paper thin...so I guess it's not technically a "card". It needs to meet both criteria. It does have the benefit of being listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, so maybe that should be the criteria.

That said, I'd love to have the NCP of Wagner. Call me crazy, but I'd take the NCP over his E107 or W600 based on my definition and pursuit of each HOFer's "earliest collectible".

1914-15 Cracker Jacks are paper thin. Are they not cards?

[Rhotchkiss]

Bottom line is that the hobby does not accept supplements as cards and, therefore, that is not Lajoie’s rookie card and will not sell for anything close to what Lajoie’s accepted rookie cards sells for. PuckPaul, you are doing a noble job trying to promote your supplement, likely in an attempt to increase value, but it is not treated as Lajoie’s rookie card. At least for now, your Lajoie supplement will continue to sell for a fraction of what the W600 Type 1 (green and traditional) and e107 Lajoies sell for. Sorry. Puff all you want, but whether you like it or not (and regardless of what I think), them’s the facts.

[Baseball Rarities]

It is always interesting to see everyone’s takes on this subject. Lots of different views.

[puckpaul]

Ryan, happy to have either set do well (my Lajoie W600 below), and I am not currently a seller. I do think the NCP are one of the best (most beautiful and most interesting) sets ever, as well as the M101-1s, and with grading someday and maybe more turnover and trading in them (might be too rare?), they will appreciate to higher levels. I find them far more appealing than the Breisch Williams set, which copied many of the same portraits but smaller and several years later, but that’s me. I do love the W600s, which I find incredibly attractive and important.

Lastly, I think they should appreciate on their own merits. The rookie designation is not critical (hence the 52 Topps Mantle).

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Ryan, happy to have either set do well (my Lajoie W600 below), and I am not currently a seller. I do think the NCP are one of the best (most beautiful and most interesting) sets ever, as well as the M101-1s, and with grading someday and maybe more turnover and trading in them (might be too rare?), they will appreciate to higher levels. I find them far more appealing than the Breisch Williams set, which copied many of the same portraits but smaller and several years later, but that’s me. I do love the W600s, which I find incredibly attractive and important.

Lastly, I think they should appreciate on their own merits. The rookie designation is not critical (hence the 52 Topps Mantle).

I too think the M101s, and especially the copper plates, are awesome. And there is no doubt they are earlier (in some cases earliest) renditions of most players and are worthy of the title “rookie”. The hobby just isn’t there. I love Honus Wagner and I have been looking at the copper plate on (and off) eBay for years, but I just can’t pull the trigger bc I am not sure it’s a smart buy. Grading could help, but if PSA/SGC has not graded them to date, I am not sure what will change there; and the fact that Beckett does slab them does not help, considering Beckett is very poor on vintage.

Post cards are a different topic all together. I tend to agree that the 1915 Red Sox team PC is not Ruth’s rookie - not bc its a post card but bc its a team picture. It certainly is his earliest major league appearance, but I think his 1916 cards, which are dedicated to him alone, are his rookie. But all those 1907 post cards of Cobb.... At this point I think it’s fairly established that (aside from w600) all of those 1907 postcards are Cobb rookies (cabinets are another, similar debate).

Who knows. Collect what you like!! And I fully agree that M101s are very likeable!

[Lorewalker]

With as busy as PSA is I do not see them making an even larger holder that would accommodate the NCP or the M101-1s but maybe one day they will. Until then the hobby is stuck with Beckett, who as Ryan has pointed out, does not have the respect with their graded vintage.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Only the Standard Biscuit is Ruth's Rookie Card. RC stands for Rookie Card, NOT supplements, newspaper clippings, post cards, Type 1/2 photos, ect. The Postcard is exactly what it says. Its meant to be mailed and thrown away, or can saved as memorabilia from a loved one of a favorite item or team. The Standard Biscuit card is meant to be collected and traded to complete a set or just have the most. People are just grasping for what ever money they can suck out of you all the time. Goldin Auctions knows very well what they are doing and I hope the owners realize that it's a supplement is not an actual RC.

I personally feel that postcards are very much baseball cards. They had a dual purpose, especially in the early 1900s: to be used as correspondence through the mail and also to collect on their own. The majority of the baseballs postcards that pop up today have never been postmarked and were instead purchased as a collectible. Just look at how many scrapbooks from the early 1900s surface that are comprised of someone’s postcard collection from the day.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

I personally feel that postcards are very much baseball cards. They had a dual purpose, especially in the early 1900s: to be used as correspondence through the mail and also to collect on their own. The majority of the baseballs postcards that pop up today have never been postmarked and were instead purchased as a collectible. Just look at how many scrapbooks from the early 1900s surface that are comprised of someone’s postcard collection from the day.

Well, when they were issued as a set, i would agree. I mean, whoever designed the postcards and issued them decided to use the likeness of the player to attract customers. Then they must have decided to use a group of players or images and not just one player. That defines a “set” then. So if it can be collected as a set, and isnt just a one off photo of a player on a postcard, then I would consider them cards.