FS: 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson PSA 4.5

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

but the question I think now is that I'll need to include the "story" of the card to whomever might someday purchase and let them decide.

Lawsuit? Create a go fund me page, I will kick in significantly.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Lawsuit? Create a go fund me page, I will kick in significantly.

To force a clearly necessary independent opinionwhich at best I imagine would prove that they "got it wrong" - I imagine it would be much harder to prove it was done as a perpetration of fraud to limit their liability. Any attorneys care to chime in?

This is the equivalent of asking the Fox with wool around his mouth if he ate the sheep he was guarding and taking his word for it when he responds no!

[benjulmag]

No surprise to me at least that PSA would not accept evidence of trimming by Blowout. What would be the implications if they did? IMO PSA's contingent liabilities grossly exceed their net worth given the amount of altered cards that have received grades. The problem is proving that such as to be legally able to invoke their guarantee. So if PSA were to concede that evidence of trimming by Blowout in and of itself requires it to make good on their guarantee, that concession could have significant adverse financial consequences.

EDITED TO ADD that regardless what Blowout did or did not find, the notion that a company will objectively evaluate whether it needs to make good on a guarantee is unrealistic. The entire concept behind the legitimacy of TPG is based on the principle that the grading company has no economic stake in the outcome. So we are to believe that a TPG will objectively evaluate that it made a mistake, the consequences of which will be to trigger a significant financial liability? Your Kool-Aid better be pretty strong to swallow that one.

[AGuinness]

Thanks for the update, AJ.
Sad to see it go this way, but not at all unexpected. Remember that "interview" of Brent at PWCC a couple years ago when he argued that if alterations couldn't be detected then there shouldn't be a problem (I'm certainly paraphrasing)? I think he called it "restoration" rather than alteration. Seems like the hobby has clearly hit that unfortunate target. I don't believe that PSA is involved in a conspiracy about this, just that they actually cannot detect the alterations of this card and so many many more.
Does anyone know of a serial numbered card that BODA has outed and then was reviewed by the TPG that graded it and revised it's assessment to acknowledge the alteration(s), or standing by the assessment? I know BODA has found a number of serial numbered cards like this and it would be tougher to question their discoveries as it is iron clad going to be the same card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is really a new low the more I think about it == to be clear, PSA and the giant middle finger it just gave the hobby.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is really a new low the more I think about it == to be clear, PSA and the giant middle finger it just gave the hobby.

Not a new low, just another day at the orifice, I mean office.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

No surprise to me at least that PSA would not accept evidence of trimming by Blowout. What would be the implications if they did? IMO PSA's contingent liabilities grossly exceed their net worth given the amount of altered cards that have received grades. The problem is proving that such as to be legally able to invoke their guarantee. So if PSA were to concede that evidence of trimming by Blowout in and of itself requires it to make good on their guarantee, that concession could have significant adverse financial consequences.

EDITED TO ADD that regardless what Blowout did or did not find, the notion that a company will objectively evaluate whether it needs to make good on a guarantee is unrealistic. The entire concept behind the legitimacy of TPG is based on the principle that the grading company has no economic stake in the outcome. So we are to believe that a TPG will objectively evaluate that it made a mistake, the consequences of which will be to trigger a significant financial liability? Your Kool-Aid better be pretty strong to swallow that one.

Yup. When it costs you 20K to admit you were wrong, and there are no consequences to insisting you were right even if you were wrong, which do you pick?

I would guess this was not really left to the judgment of a grader. Or the grader was smart enough to know what he was supposed to conclude.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Lawsuit? Create a go fund me page, I will kick in significantly.

I second this. I'm sure others will, too.

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1457965

Interesting that PSA is now cracking down on cards previously submitted through them that they have visual evidence of being graded before. Wonder if this is only for serial numbered cards, and currently only certain grading levels are getting scanned by PSA.
Nat Turner has also responded to a thread or two on Blowout calling out PSA for doing their customers wrong, however, he has smartly stayed out of any thread having to do with their inability or complicity in the altered cards scandal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He understands that the vast majority of the hobby doesn't care.

If they say it isn't trimmed, it isn't trimmed. Even if it is.

If I say it's safe to surf this beach, it's safe to surf this beach.

Ipse dixit or whatever the figure of speech is.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1457965

Interesting that PSA is now cracking down on cards previously submitted through them that they have visual evidence of being graded before. Wonder if this is only for serial numbered cards, and currently only certain grading levels are getting scanned by PSA.
Nat Turner has also responded to a thread or two on Blowout calling out PSA for doing their customers wrong, however, he has smartly stayed out of any thread having to do with their inability or complicity in the altered cards scandal.

To me this denial despite being shown before and after is enough to push them over the line into complicit.

But they'll skate on this like they do with everything, because all that matters is "value added"

SGC is the same.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by steve B

To me this denial despite being shown before and after is enough to push them over the line into complicit.

But they'll skate on this like they do with everything, because all that matters is "value added"

SGC is the same.

Excellent point. Even though we've long suspected PSA's complicity and favoritism towards "preferred" customers.... This is now hard evidence that they not only misidentified an altered card, but also shunned iron-clad evidence that the card is altered.

At a bare minimum, they are in violation of their so called "guarantee". More accurately however, this categorizes them as purveyors of fraud.

I know there are thousands of similar corrupt instances, but really hope the FBI is all over this particular one (as the stakes are far higher with this case).