PWCC Auctions this evening

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too shabby for a second year non HOFer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Topps-...T/143970127368

Not to get into modern card talk here, but I’ve got one of these Clemens in a 10, and will defend it....

There are 46 of these in a 10, out of over 1,400 graded - a 3% rate of getting a 10. In comparison, the whole 1985 Tiffany set has a 26% rate of getting a 10. So something is super tough about getting this card in a 10, and it is relatively a low pop in the grade. So. I think it actually has a chance to go higher.

OK, time to put my vintage hat back on....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

It brought Bill Mastro down. But then again, what was once seen as "unacceptable" in the past is outright accepted now. You see it really bad in politics.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It brought Bill Mastro down. But then again, what was once seen as "unacceptable" in the past is outright accepted now. You see it really bad in politics.

Right, if memory serves Mastro was finished once it hit the fan and long before his plea, but Brent on the other hand has gained tremendously.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

Honestly I doubt the average collector has a clue about how big the fraud is in the hobby. Sure they know to avoid a few eBay sellers but that is it. I have some collecting friends that don't do any social media/forums and they don't have a clue.

These silly prices are not being driven by collectors. We have too many "investors" playing hot potato now with cards. Then we have a ton of people with a lot of extra time and cash helping the silliness.

I understand there are a lot of people that will do/are doing their best to not let the market drop like a rock. They have been doing an amazing job for the last couple years but this is like the junk era, it just can't last, or at least I sincerely hope not.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there any other line of commerce where being clearly and convincingly exposed as a fraudster, and being under federal investigation would not only be good for business, but exceedingly good? It seems half the pricey cards in the hobby are now going to PWCC. Extraordinary.

I wonder if he is still a client of any High Profile Defense Attorney?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I wonder if he is still a client of any High Profile Defense Attorney?

Who, Brent?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who, Brent?

Yes

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Yes

I would assume he has the same representation.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would assume he has the same representation.

If that assumption is correct would it not leave one to believe that their business practices are Kosher and Not Violating and Laws ???

[Schlesinj]

I remember someone posted in the Rickey Henderson thread about the 10 that sold for $140k or so describing how little 10 were as a percentage which seemed almost a manipulation based on the # of submissions.

I do think in the 80s-early 90s people tried to take care of cards (yes I know centering etc matters), so you would think those %s would be higher compared to 70's and older.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I remember someone posted in the Rickey Henderson thread about the 10 that sold for $140k or so describing how little 10 were as a percentage which seemed almost a manipulation based on the # of submissions.

I do think in the 80s-early 90s people tried to take care of cards (yes I know centering etc matters), so you would think those %s would be higher compared to 70's and older.

That was me...and it was $180,000 !!!!

I said that was not a true value. Never said anything about manipulation or # of submission I was simply stating the Opinion that I did not believe that was a true value for a PSA 10 Henderson Topps Rookie.

[ASF123]

I remember someone posted in the Rickey Henderson thread about the 10 that sold for $140k or so describing how little 10 were as a percentage which seemed almost a manipulation based on the # of submissions.

PSA doesn't get paid to grade cards per se; PSA gets paid to create scarcity so that some people win the lottery and can sell otherwise commonly available cards for huge numbers.

I'm sure they are well aware of this, and it gives them every incentive to keep the high-grade populations down. Whether they do it by rewarding favored submitters, or by creating subjective "extra-super-duper-mint" standards that are (a) essentially intangible and (b) practically unattainable, or by some combination of both, I'm sure they do it.