Will Roger Maris ever get into the HOF?

[UKCardGuy]

So what do you think?

To me, he seems like one of the major omissions from Cooperstown. While you could argue that he had a too few great seasons, I'd argue that there are lesser players in the HOF.

I'm not arguing that he's at the same level as the likes of Ruth, Gehrig and Aaron. But is he really less deserving than Richie Ashburn, Ron Santo and Bill Mazeroski?

If he's ever elected to Cooperstown, would a bump in his card prices likely follow?

Let the debate begin!

[John1941]

No, I don't think he will ever make it to the Hall. And I don't think he deserves it either. I really like Maris, but the thing is is that Maris had 2 great seasons and 3 very good seasons. Ashburn had 3 great seasons, more than Maris, and 6 very good seasons. Santo had 5 great seasons, and 4 very good seasons. I'm not gonna compare him to Mazeroski, because I'm not sure Maz belongs in the Hall either, but overall I'd say 2 great seasons don't make a hall of famer.

[jayshum]

Maris is not a Hall of Famer. Yes, he had 2 great years and won 2 MVP awards, but he only played 12 seasons and had a total of 1325 hits and 275 home runs with a .260 career batting average. Dale Murphy also won 2 MVP awards but had a much longer career (18 years), 2111 hits, 398 home runs and a .265 career batting average, and he didn't come close to getting the the Hall of Fame. The only reason Maris is talked about for the Hall of Fame is for hitting 61 home runs in a season. One great feat doesn't make you a Hall of Famer.

[D. Bergin]

As a Yankee fan and as a Roger Maris fan, I say no.

If he somehow does make the Hall, there will be a bump simply because it will be surprising, but Roger's card already carries a premium above many other HOF'ers because of his milestones and overall popularity in the hobby.

I think, especially in the last couple years, several popular, but not HOF caliber players have seen a bump, even beyond many established HOF'ers. Especially when it comes to their "Rookie" cards.

I think it's a good thing. As collectors age, they're becoming more intrigued by players that captured their imagination in their younger days.

Yankees have several other examples: Mattingly, Munson, Randolph, Guidry

A few on other teams off the top of my head, I've noticed movement on: Mark Fidrych, Fernando Valenzuela, Bobby Grich, Dwight Evans, Jose Canseco


I'm sure a few of those guys are because of anticipation of one day getting in the Hall........especially after the Baines enshrinement...........but certainly not all of them.

I'm sure there's lots more examples.

[egri]

I don't see it. He was a good player who had a couple great seasons, but if Maris had hit 59 home runs that year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. At least not while sober.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by egri

I don't see it. He was a good player who had a couple great seasons, but if Maris had hit 59 home runs that year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. At least not while sober.

Agreed. I almost included the exact same thing in my earlier post but then deleted it.

[UKCardGuy]

I completely get the points above. But somehow it just doesn't sit right with me. He may have had only a few great seasons but WOW weren't they great.

3x World Series Champion (the last being with the Cards)
7x All-star
2x MVP

I look at some of other names in the HOF and really can't understand the disparity. I mean Fergie Jenkins....really???? I remember watching him during the 70s. Nobody I knew considered him a star. Yet there he is in the HOF.

It seems to me that if you had a longer fairly average career that allowed you to rack up some career totals, you have a shot at the HOF. Somehow, it it doesn't seem right.

Even Nellie Fox (and I love Nellie)...is he really that much better than Maris?

[Frankish]

Very interesting question. Personally, I think Maris should have been elected to the HOF a long time ago. That said, I doubt he will be now and each year that passes seems to make it less likely, as generations of players change and baseball moves on.

I understand and appreciate all of the points made to the contrary. My own opinion is that long and consistent careers are overweighted in HOF selections. The length and/or consistency of some careers is remarkable but many HOFers are simply top 5% players that maintained that level of play over a healthy career. Nothing wrong with that. But I think the HOF should have room for the record-shatterers, the boundary breakers, etc. It is after all the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Consistent High-Level Execution.

[D. Bergin]

If somebody says "The Hall Of Very Good" at any point in this thread..............I might have to blow my top.

[packs]

Players have gotten in on a single season or event before. I don’t know if Maz gets in without his home run and I don’t think Dizzy Dean gets in without winning 30 games. Would Hack Wilson be in without his RBI record? In my opinion what Maris did in 1961 eclipses all of them.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by packs

Players have gotten in on a single season or event before. I don’t know if Maz gets in without his home run and I don’t think Dizzy Dean gets in without winning 30 games. Would Hack Wilson be in without his RBI record? In my opinion what Maris did in 1961 eclipses all of them.

This! And the way Maris conducted himself in that 1961 season was beyond reproach. The constant press intrusion and the view of many fans at the time that Maris should take a bake seat to Mantle.

[Touch'EmAll]

Hall of FAME - I do believe Maris is quite famous, is he not? Darn good player to boot, couple MVP's, held one of the most prestigious records in all of sports.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

If somebody says "The Hall Of Very Good" at any point in this thread..............I might have to blow my top.

Dave, only because you set it up so nicely...

With some of the players in the HOF and they're journeyman records, I have to wonder if its becoming the Hall of Very Good.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Dave, only because you set it up so nicely...

With some of the players in the HOF and they're journeyman records, I have to wonder if its becoming the Hall of Very Good.

[thecomebacker]

Yes, and still owns THE (legit) single season HR record in my book.

[Exhibitman]

No, but he's already accorded HOF-level respect by collectors, so it doesn't really matter.

Thread needs a card:

[mortimer brewster]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

But is he really less deserving than Richie Ashburn, Ron Santo and Bill Mazeroski?

If he's ever elected to Cooperstown, would a bump in his card prices likely follow?

Let the debate begin!

The reason why the above mention players and guys like Rizzuto got into the Hall of fame is because they never left the public eye. They were sportscasters or broadcasters for their respective teams. Maz even had his own Magazine for years. Santo even openly campaigned for inclusion into the Hall. They were ambassadors of the game and were wildly popular with the fans.

This point was illustrated in the NFL last year when Bill "I am on the CBS pregame show every week" Cowher and Jimmy "Fox Network" Johnson were elected to the Hall of Fame, where Tom Flores 2 time Super Bowl winning coach with the Raiders was barely given consideration.

Maris was not associated with the game after he retired. He valued his privacy. Also, if he hit the 61 home runs playing for the Washington Senators there would be no Hall of fame discussion.

[packs]

I think he valued his privacy for a reason. People were threatening to kill him for hitting home runs. Not exactly a welcoming atmosphere for the guy. Winning back to back MVPs isn't an automatic HOF resume (Dale Murphy, for example) but it is also quite the feat.

I do not believe the HOF would be watered down with Maris in it. His 1961 season was one of the greatest seasons any player has ever had.

[UKCardGuy]

I wish the criteria for voting was more transparent. Koufax valued his privacy after retirement and it didn't impact his induction.

If players have a great broadcasting career then let them get into the Broadcasting Hall of Fame. But if middlng players with ho-hum records can get inducted and record breakers can't, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I remember Fergie Jenkins playing for the Rangers when I was a kid in Dallas. We were pretty disappointed when it was Fergie's turn in the rotation. 4.07 ERA in 1979...need I say more?

[Touch'EmAll]

Can't wait to see the plaque of Harold Baines. And while I am visiting, didn't I hear of some guy who broke Babe Ruth's record - please direct me to his plaque.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I wish the criteria for voting was more transparent. Koufax valued his privacy after retirement and it didn't impact his induction.

If players have a great broadcasting career then let them get into the Broadcasting Hall of Fame. But if middlng players with ho-hum records can get inducted and record breakers can't, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I remember Fergie Jenkins playing for the Rangers when I was a kid in Dallas. We were pretty disappointed when it was Fergie's turn in the rotation. 4.07 ERA in 1979...need I say more?

I'm not sure why you're picking on Fergie Jenkins, but from 1967 to 1974, he won 20 or more games every year but one, won a Cy Young award, finished second twice and third twice for the Cy Young. By 1979, he was 36 years old, but the season before, he was 18-8 with a 3.04 ERA. When Maris was 36, he had been out of baseball for 3 years. There are definitely some pitchers in the Hall of Fame who don't belong there, but I don't think Fergie Jenkins is one of them.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Can't wait to see the plaque of Harold Baines. And while I am visiting, didn't I hear of some guy who broke Babe Ruth's record - please direct me to his plaque.

I agree that Harold Baines doesn't deserve a plaque, but just because he got in, it doesn't mean Maris should. I would guess there is plenty more in the museum part of the Hall of Fame about Roger Maris than there is Harold Baines even if Maris doesn't have a plaque.

[toppcat]

He needed another 2-3 top years IMO and also raked in what were two expansion years, so there is some dilution there of MLB talent.

Two guys who really should be in are both second basemen: Bobby Grich and (especially) Lou Whitaker.

[jingram058]

Well, if we're going down this road, here is $.02, FWIW...no, I don't think Harold Mediocre Baines needs to be in, and no Maris doesn't need to get in. Like the man said, if he hit 59, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But consider these rather serious omissions...Chuck Klein, Riggs Stephenson, Cecil Travis, and Gil Hodges.

Then we have Joe Jackson (he didn't take the money), Pete Rose (I couldn't care less about his gambling), and Barry Bonds (I couldn't care less about his steroids).

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, if we're going down this road, here is $.02, FWIW...no, I don't think Harold Mediocre Baines needs to be in, and no Maris doesn't need to get in. Like the man said, if he hit 59, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But consider these rather serious omissions...Chuck Klein, Riggs Stephenson, Cecil Travis, and Gil Hodges.

Then we have Joe Jackson (he didn't take the money), Pete Rose (I couldn't care less about his gambling), and Barry Bonds (I couldn't care less about his steroids).

Chuck Klein was elected in 1980. Fun Fact: Klein and Lou Gehrig are the only players in history that have recorded 400 or more total bases in three separate seasons.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, if we're going down this road, here is $.02, FWIW...no, I don't think Harold Mediocre Baines needs to be in, and no Maris doesn't need to get in. Like the man said, if he hit 59, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But consider these rather serious omissions...Chuck Klein, Riggs Stephenson, Cecil Travis, and Gil Hodges.

Then we have Joe Jackson (he didn't take the money), Pete Rose (I couldn't care less about his gambling), and Barry Bonds (I couldn't care less about his steroids).

I completely agree with you about Hodges. I never understood Gil's omission especially considering the additional consideration of his managerial career

8× All-Star (1949–1955, 1957)
3× World Series champion (1955, 1959, 1969)
3× Gold Glove Award (1957–1959)
Managed the '69 Miracle Mets

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Chuck Klein was elected in 1980.

Duh...Alzheimer's, I guess.

[tjenkins]

I live in northern South South Dakota. Maris grew up 150 miles from me and personally alot of us in this area don't understand, why he is not in? He held arguably the most prestigious record in baseball during a time period when pitching was pretty darn tough. I understand he only had two superstar level seasons but I feel if Maris had one negative quality, it was how the pressure of the 1961 season and outdoing the Babe and Mantle really negatively affected his health. I believe it shortened his career, which in my opinion says something about the type of person he was. I wish like hell he would get in but I do not think he will. There are certainly players less deserving than Maris who are in.

[tjenkins]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, if we're going down this road, here is $.02, FWIW...no, I don't think Harold Mediocre Baines needs to be in, and no Maris doesn't need to get in. Like the man said, if he hit 59, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But consider these rather serious omissions...Chuck Klein, Riggs Stephenson, Cecil Travis, and Gil Hodges.

Then we have Joe Jackson (he didn't take the money), Pete Rose (I couldn't care less about his gambling), and Barry Bonds (I couldn't care less about his steroids).

I also agree with EVERYTHING that jingram has said other than I believe Maris should be in.

[mortimer brewster]

Gil Hodges should most definitely be a Hall of Famer.

At the time of his retirement he was 10th on the all time HR list. Second all time among Right Handed hitters. Also at the Time of his retirement he was first on the all time grand slam list. Great defensive first baseman.

Piloting the Miracle Mets to the World Championship in 1969 should also be a factor.

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I completely agree with you about Hodges. I never understood Gil's omission especially considering the additional consideration of his managerial career

8× All-Star (1949–1955, 1957)
3× World Series champion (1955, 1959, 1969)
3× Gold Glove Award (1957–1959)
Managed the '69 Miracle Mets

I second this one...Harold Baines and Barry Larkin...no Gil Hodges?? Cmon...

As for Maris...Here is a player still revered, talked about, and relevant...above many of his peers...I would want him in for emotional reasons, and not sure that's good enough. I certainly wouldn't be upset if he got in...

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

So what do you think?

To me, he seems like one of the major omissions from Cooperstown. While you could argue that he had a too few great seasons, I'd argue that there are lesser players in the HOF.

I'm not arguing that he's at the same level as the likes of Ruth, Gehrig and Aaron. But is he really less deserving than Richie Ashburn, Ron Santo and Bill Mazeroski?

If he's ever elected to Cooperstown, would a bump in his card prices likely follow?

Let the debate begin!

Hello, Gary. Nice post from our "resident" London mate. I began becoming aware of baseball and collecting cards of the players in 1961. Roger Maris became a hero of mine that year, and I've never thrust him aside as a hero. I fully agree with you, Gary; Roger Maris belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. The arguments against him are compelling, while some are immature. I won't discredit anyone else's admission to the BBHOF. I for one believe one outstanding season should carry more weight than what it does. Had Rog hit 59, we wouldn't be talking about the matter.

Really? What a hollow argument.

The fact Mr. Maris broke the record in more games than the Babe has been de-bunked sufficiently. The fact that it was an expansion year is true, yet the opportunity for record numbers was out there for every player, but only Roger Maris was able to break baseball's most revered single-season record. The man did this under some of the most trying, stressful, and discouraging conditions. How he held up is anyone's guess, but his devotion to his family, his team, and his personal drive to do his dead level best every game, no matter what the press threw at him, is the height of courage.

They call it a hall of fame. Roger Maris earned more fame than half the enshrinees in that one season. Same with Gil Hodges managing the Amazing Mets of 1969, and yet he's not in, either. Same with Bobby Thomson's Shot Heard Round the World magical one-game moment, but it wasn't enough to elect him. Granted, where would Hack Wilson, Dizzy Dean, and Big Ed Walsh be without their Mount Everest years? So? That's irrelevant; their career year made such a huge impression on the voters that they enshrined them, whether while they were alive or almost forgotten.

The guys who vote players in nowadays demand big numbers from a couple decades, with lots of rings, or lots of league leaderships. I'm not saying they're entirely wrong, but I'm with you, Gary; when a player plays his heart out trying to bust the Babe's "sacred" record of 60 homers in a season, AND DOES IT, it sure says a lot about the people involved with the sport, and its fans, who decide that man doesn't deserve to be in the BBHOF.

As our Exhibit expert said, collectors have priced him as a Hall of Famer, 'cause a bunch of us, including me, value Roger Maris as a Hall of Famer.

Back to the OP question. No, Gary, I don't think the BBHOF Veterans Committee will elect Roger Maris. I'll be mighty pleased if they do, and scream, "Well, it's about time!!!!!" However, given the value system of today, and the fact that ball-less MLB has never addressed the matter of the players who achieved moon-shot record years due to their shooting up with steroids, I guess Roger's memory will continue to be cherished by his devoted fans who have their rich patina plaques of Roger Maris entrenched in their hearts and minds until they die.

That's my nickel pack's worth. Keep enjoying Roger Maris cardboard, Gary!

--- Brian Powell

[toppcat]

It would be interesting if the HOF ever decided to honor meritorious individual seasons or feats with some kind of honor. You could have things like No Hit Vandermeer's back to backs, Maris in '61, etc.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hello, Gary. Nice post from our "resident" London mate. I began becoming aware of baseball and collecting cards of the players in 1961. Roger Maris became a hero of mine that year, and I've never thrust him aside as a hero. I fully agree with you, Gary; Roger Maris belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. The arguments against him are compelling, while some are immature. I won't discredit anyone else's admission to the BBHOF. I for one believe one outstanding season should carry more weight than what it does. Had Rog hit 59, we wouldn't be talking about the matter.

Really? What a hollow argument.

The fact Mr. Maris broke the record in more games than the Babe has been de-bunked sufficiently. The fact that it was an expansion year is true, yet the opportunity for record numbers was out there for every player, but only Roger Maris was able to break baseball's most revered single-season record. The man did this under some of the most trying, stressful, and discouraging conditions. How he held up is anyone's guess, but his devotion to his family, his team, and his personal drive to do his dead level best every game, no matter what the press threw at him, is the height of courage.

They call it a hall of fame. Roger Maris earned more fame than half the enshrinees in that one season. Same with Gil Hodges managing the Amazing Mets of 1969, and yet he's not in, either. Same with Bobby Thomson's Shot Heard Round the World magical one-game moment, but it wasn't enough to elect him. Granted, where would Hack Wilson, Dizzy Dean, and Big Ed Walsh be without their Mount Everest years? So? That's irrelevant; their career year made such a huge impression on the voters that they enshrined them, whether while they were alive or almost forgotten.

The guys who vote players in nowadays demand big numbers from a couple decades, with lots of rings, or lots of league leaderships. I'm not saying they're entirely wrong, but I'm with you, Gary; when a player plays his heart out trying to bust the Babe's "sacred" record of 60 homers in a season, AND DOES IT, it sure as anything says a lot about the people involved with the sport and its fans that that man doesn't deserve to be in the BBHOF.

As our Exhibit expert said, collectors have priced him as a Hall of Famer, 'cause a bunch of us, including me, value Roger Maris as a Hall of Famer.

Back to the OP question. No, Gary, I don't think the BBHOF Veterans Committee will elect Roger Maris. I'll be mighty pleased if they do, and scream, "Well, it's about time!!!!!" However, given the value system of today, and the fact that ball-less MLB has never addressed the matter of the records of players who achieved moon-shot record years due to their shooting up with steroids, I guess Roger's memory will continue to be cherished by his devoted fans who will have their rich patina plaques of Roger Maris entrenched in their hearts and minds until they die.

That's my nickel pack's worth. Keep enjoying Roger Maris cardboard, Gary!

--- Brian Powell

Thanks Brian. I agree with everything you said.

To add something a little different, rather than a card, here's a photo of a 1960 Maris Hartland Statue.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by toppcat

It would be interesting if the HOF ever decided to honor meritorious individual seasons or feats with some kind of honor. You could have things like No Hit Vandermeer's back to backs, Maris in '61, etc.

This is already done in the museum portion of the Hall of Fame. The plaque gallery contains plaques for the inducted Hall of Famers. The rest of the museum contains plenty of information, displays and memorabilia recognizing the history of baseball including records, individual feats and accomplishments, etc.

[Popcorn]

I’m usually tuff on HOF inductees but I think he deserves it. They basically “maris” proofed baseball after his 61 season.

The hr record was always the most important stat in sports for a 100 years and he owned it. I’d put him in.

[brian1961]

Hey Gary, that's a nifty Roger Maris Hartland Statue, introduced in 1961 I believe, right after Roger's 1960 MVP season. The company did the same for the National League MVP, Dick Groat. Groat is the most notorious scarcity among Hartland baseball statues.

It was about 1971 or 72. A cross-country buddy of mine, Fred, had me over for supper. I noticed he had a Roger Maris Hartland on display, which immediately caught my interest. All alone, it was probably a cherished childhood gift that still meant something to him. Anyways, I tried a couple of times that evening to get him to sell it to me. He quietly refused each time----good for him! Deep down, I wouldn't want to deprive a dear friend of something that meant a lot to him. As it turned out, that was the closest I ever came to a Maris Hartland. I hope my buddy Fred is doing well, and still has his Hartland Rajah! Thanks for showing that beautiful statue to us, Gary. All the best to you, Brian Powell

[John1941]

The Hall of Fame is not really a hall of fame. That's just what it's called. It is an honor for the best players, not necessarily the most famous. The two things, at least in my opinion, should not be mixed up.

Roger Maris, though he was definitely famous, just did not have a long enough peak to be worthy of enshrinement.

[jchcollins]

The all or nothing line that the HOF has come to represent has gotten pretty silly. I wouldn't have a problem with Maris getting in, but there are plenty of players who are a lot more deserving that still aren't. Dick Allen. Minnie Minoso. Gil Hodges. Tony Oliva...the list goes on. He's a pretty weak choice based on career numbers for an OF. Would we be having this conversation, perhaps even with the 61 homers - had Maris been playing in Kansas City or Cleveland still at the time? Probably not. As has already been mentioned, he is already treated like a HOF'er in our hobby and he has been for decades. Just like Munson, Rose, and a few others. It kind of doesn't matter.

[riggs336]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, if we're going down this road, here is $.02, FWIW...no, I don't think Harold Mediocre Baines needs to be in, and no Maris doesn't need to get in. Like the man said, if he hit 59, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But consider these rather serious omissions...Chuck Klein, Riggs Stephenson, Cecil Travis, and Gil Hodges.

Then we have Joe Jackson (he didn't take the money), Pete Rose (I couldn't care less about his gambling), and Barry Bonds (I couldn't care less about his steroids).

I'm a big fan of Riggs Stephenson as my avatar and user id indicate.

Is he more deserving than some of the people already in the Hall? Yes...hello Fred Lindstrom. But he really wasn't a HOF caliber player.

There are already way too many mistakes from that big-hitting era of the late 20's and 1930's. We don't need any more.

Although I collect them both, either he nor Maris belong in the Hall.

[Mark17]

When there is a decent sized list of guys more deserving ahead of Maris (and I'll add Tony Oliva to that list now,) that is reason he shouldn't be in.

If we're going to say his one great year (1961) season and another MVP season (1960) puts him in, then how about Denny McLain? A great year (1968, 31 wins - last guy to win 30, Cy Young award, MVP) and 1969 (24 wins, another Cy award) are comparable. Not to mention 20 wins in 1966.

Despite a long and painfully tedious goodbye, McLain still ended with a .590 winning percentage.

No I don't think McLain should be in, just saying, stat-wise and accomplishment-wise, he's reasonably comparable to Maris, who also shouldn't be in.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by riggs336

I'm a big fan of Riggs Stephenson as my avatar and user id indicate.

Is he more deserving than some of the people already in the Hall? Yes...hello Fred Lindstrom. But he really wasn't a HOF caliber player.

There are already way too many mistakes from that big-hitting era of the late 20's and 1930's. We don't need any more.

Although I collect them both, either he nor Maris belong in the Hall.

Well, I agree defensively. His football injury hurt him, no doubt. But he hit above .300 for years, and was looked on as a star by every writer and fan it seems.

I guess for me my most glaring omission, the one that I just don't understand, is Gil Hodges. That one I just don't get at all.

[Exhibitman]

Frank "Lefty" O'Doul is the greatest eligible position player not in the Hall of Fame. Over 970 games (30 shy of the 1,000 used for official records) from 1919 to 1934, Lefty averaged .349, winning two batting championships and setting the NL record for most hits in a season. Not in any way a "homer", Lefty hit .352 at home and .347 on the road, proving he belongs among the elite hitters in history. After his days in the majors ended, he returned to the Pacific Coast League, where he was the longtime manager of the San Francisco Seals and later the San Diego and Seattle teams. Lefty was instrumental in organizing Japanese baseball, whose premiere team, the Giants, was named in his honor. Lefty is one of only 3 Americans in the Japanese baseball hall of fame.

[G1911]

The greatest eligible position player not in the HOF is Barry Bonds. Whether he should be in or not is another issue.


I’d pick Dahlen over O’Doul among old timers who are eligible, for one. O’Doul played 6 full time seasons, 4 of his 11 years were under 40 games. One has to ascribe to the theory that very short peaks are enough in and of themselves (the Maris argument, though Maris’ was far more significant), or that O’Doul should be the first person inducted into the Cooperstown Hall of Fame primarily for his contributions to Japanese Baseball.

[John1941]

I like taking into account minor league stats also for pre-1950 guys, and in that case Lefty O'Doul has 10 full seasons, instead of just 6 .Still not a ton, but it gets him closer. And I really think the quality of the NL and PCL back then were at least comparable .For instance, O'Doul won 2 NL batting titles, but no PCL batting titles.

[yanks87]

I, too am a HUGE Yankee fan. I love Maris, but to look at his stat line, never hit above .283, had two really good years, and caught lightning in a bottle to hit 61 in '61. He is worth of a baseball history "tip of the cap", but not hall worthy.

I agree with a bunch of folks here that the hall quality level has REALLY dropped. Since I was a kid growing up going to Cooperstown every summer, I always felt that the Hall should be reserved for those players that were iconic at their position within the era that they played, and numbers in line with the elites of the game. It seems like the recent classes have really stretched both of those qualifiers. I am probably the lone crazy guy who thinks that Edgar Martinez has no place in the Hall. In fact, I think if DH's are going to go into the hall, they should have a minimum of 3000 hits. If not, they are good, not great, players by comparison, minus the fact that they don't play in the field. I stand by the fact that if Edgar is in, the Cobra should be as well, their numbers are almost the same, but Dave Parker actually played in the field on top of all the batting.

That is my problem with the way people are making it into the Hall currently, it seems to be more about perceptions than reality in the context of the history of the game.

[packs]

I'm in general agreement with you about the full picture but Hack Wilson is a HOFer too. He had exactly two outstanding seasons, one that saw him set the RBI record. Not all that different from Maris. Wilson even got in long after Maris hit 61. If there is room for single season achievements in the Hall I think Maris has achieved the most.

[jingram058]

While Cooperstown is an amazing visit, with a collection of baseball ephemera you would expect, to me it has lost credibility with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Thus, in my own collecting, I focus not only on who is in, but who I feel should be. I have no problem with Roger Maris going in. Likely he never will, but I would be happy if he did. I don't have any Harold Baines cards, and frankly, I don't want any. Nothing personal, I do not dislike him, but he just isn't a great ballplayer or a Hall of Famer in my opinion.

[Brianruns10]

I was wondering, is there ANY single season achievement that might get someone in the HoF? Like, suppose someone broke DiMaggio's hitting streak, or batted .400 for a season, but then their career fell apart due to an injury. Do you think that single season's achievement would be HoF worthy?

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by jingram058

While Cooperstown is an amazing visit, with a collection of baseball ephemera you would expect, to me it has lost credibility with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Thus, in my own collecting, I focus not only on who is in, but who I feel should be. I have no problem with Roger Maris going in. Likely he never will, but I would be happy if he did. I don't have any Harold Baines cards, and frankly, I don't want any. Nothing personal, I do not dislike him, but he just isn't a great ballplayer or a Hall of Famer in my opinion.

Yeah I struggle a bit with Cooperstown, when Gil Hodges can't make the cut, nor Mickey Vernon. And the whole business behind Buck O'Neil's exclusion just left a bad taste in my mouth (full disclosure I'm a Kansas Citian, and therefore biased here).