T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Seven]

Ted,

I've been reading through this thread for quite some time and I find the stories behind t206's fascinating. It seems like a never ending rabbit hole! Even if they're just various commons, I find myself wanting to start picking up more! So much history behind each of the cards, hell I think I'm getting a little emotional about some cardboard! I have to thank you for putting this together along with the rest of the contributors to this thread.

- James

[frankrizzo29]

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

Hi Frank,

Because even though the Doyle N.Y. NAT'L was only printed with the Piedmont 350 back the same plates were used for other backs after the NAT'L was removed and on one of those plates a small part of the N remained.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.

I may add....that PSA (several years ago) graded a Joe Doyle Nat'L card with a POLAR BEAR back on it. And, a collector paid a lot of $$$$$ for this fake card.

TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.

I may add....that PSA (several years ago) graded a Joe Doyle Nat'L card with a POLAR BEAR back on it. And, a collector paid a lot of $$$$$ for this fake card.

TED Z
.

I don't think that's accurate Ted, the ones with the partial N were made from a particular plate and the small remnant was most likely never spotted or
removed.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.
TED Z
.

Originally Posted by Pat R

I don't think that's accurate Ted, the ones with the partial N were made from a particular plate and the small remnant was most likely never spotted or
removed.

Pat

I don't understand what you mean by "a particular plate" ?


Perhaps the description in my above post isn't clear. So, I will try to elucidate here......

(A) American Litho (ALC) initially printed (incorrectly) the front of Joe Doyle N. Y. Nat'L card. Followed by the back with the PIEDMONT 350 advertisement.
ALC usually printed the PIEDMONT backs first and in a much greater amount. PIEDMONT was ATC's "flagship" Tobacco brand.

(B) An astute ALC employee caught this error (Nat'L) and quickly stopped the press. They removed the word "Nat'L" from the plate which prints the captions.
However, in the process the printer left a tiny remnant of the "N" on the caption plate.

(C) ALC then continued to print Joe Doyle N. Y. . cards. And at this point they also started to print the OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and SWEET CAPORAL backs.

(D) A keen-eyed ALC employee spotted the extraneous printer's mark and stopped the presses. And again the plate which printed the captions was cleared of
this extraneous mark.

(E) ALC then continued printing the correct Joe Doyle cards (with PIEDMONT,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, SOVEREIGN, SWEET CAP, and TOLSTOI backs).


Hey guys, although this is my theory of the events that transpired at ALC in this matter....it is based on my experience working at a Print Shop in my youth.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Pat

I don't understand what you mean by "a particular plate" ?


Perhaps the description in my above post isn't clear. So, I will try to elucidate here......

(A) American Litho (ALC) initially printed (incorrectly) the front of Joe Doyle N. Y. Nat'L card. Followed by the back with the PIEDMONT 350 advertisement.
ALC usually printed the PIEDMONT backs first and in a much greater amount. PIEDMONT was ATC's "flagship" Tobacco brand.

(B) An astute ALC employee caught this error (Nat'L) and quickly stopped the press. They removed the word "Nat'L" from the plate which prints the captions.
However, in the process the printer left a tiny remnant of the "N" on the caption plate.

(C) ALC then continued to print Joe Doyle N. Y. . cards. And at this point they also started to print the OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and SWEET CAPORAL backs.

(D) A keen-eyed ALC employee spotted the extraneous printer's mark and stopped the presses. And again the plate which printed the captions was cleared of
this extraneous mark.

(E) ALC then continued printing the correct Joe Doyle cards (with PIEDMONT,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, SOVEREIGN, SWEET CAP, and TOLSTOI backs).


Hey guys, although this is my theory of the events that transpired at ALC in this matter....it is based on my experience working at a Print Shop in my youth.


TED Z
.

We know that the T206 sheets were printed with the same vertical subject in several rows on a sheet. For example if there were five Doyle's on a sheet
there would have been five sets of plates (one for each position on the sheet) so the Doyle with the partial N would have come from a particular position
and plate as would the Doyle examples missing the period/part of the Y and the ones missing the bottom of the Y that I posted in a previous post.

[frankrizzo29]

Thank you Pat and Ted!

The knowledge by everyone in this community never ceases to amaze me. Thank you! Frank