T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


...... Piedmont .......... Sovereign ...... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___Piedmont #42 ........ Hindu ........... Sovereign


No new posts yet; however, I received a couple of emails from "readers" of Net54, who provided 4 inputs. These Joe Doyle's have been added to the survey. None of which
having this "printer's mark".
This on-going 13-year Survey..https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87066..suggests that on average, 1 out of 16 cards are found with this "printer's mark".

Hey guys, how about playing in this game by posting your Joe Doyle's here to continue this survey.....Thanks.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's Mark - - - -^ (remnant of "N" in Nat'L)


UPDATED...... Feb 27, 2021 (400 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........15..........161

Sweet Cap 350.......5...........146

Polar Bear..............4............34

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........19

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 25 ........ 375

25 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 25/400 = 6.025%



TED Z
.

[Pat R]

One in sixteen is about right for a print variation Ted.

Here are two other Doyle variations.

The "Nevada" variation missing the bottom of the Y

Doyle N. V..jpg


missing the period and part of the top right of the Y

Doyle no period.jpg

[Seven]

Ted,

I've been reading through this thread for quite some time and I find the stories behind t206's fascinating. It seems like a never ending rabbit hole! Even if they're just various commons, I find myself wanting to start picking up more! So much history behind each of the cards, hell I think I'm getting a little emotional about some cardboard! I have to thank you for putting this together along with the rest of the contributors to this thread.

- James

[frankrizzo29]

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

Hi Frank,

Because even though the Doyle N.Y. NAT'L was only printed with the Piedmont 350 back the same plates were used for other backs after the NAT'L was removed and on one of those plates a small part of the N remained.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

Ted,

I completely understand why there is the printer's mark on the Doyle with a Piedmont 350 back. However, I don't understand why there could be the exact same "partial N" on the non-piedmont 350 backs. Do you or anyone else have an hypothesis?

Thanks, Frank

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.

I may add....that PSA (several years ago) graded a Joe Doyle Nat'L card with a POLAR BEAR back on it. And, a collector paid a lot of $$$$$ for this fake card.

TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.

I may add....that PSA (several years ago) graded a Joe Doyle Nat'L card with a POLAR BEAR back on it. And, a collector paid a lot of $$$$$ for this fake card.

TED Z
.

I don't think that's accurate Ted, the ones with the partial N were made from a particular plate and the small remnant was most likely never spotted or
removed.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Frank

My explanation of why OLD MILL, POLAR, BEAR, SWEET CAPORAL (besides PIEDMONT) is simple. Before the printer(s) at American Litho realized they left the remnant of the "N"
when they initially erased "Nat'L" from the printing plate, they printed several T-brands on the backs of the pre-printed (front) sheets. Then, some "keen-eyed" printer spotted it
and completely erased this mark on the plate.
TED Z
.

Originally Posted by Pat R

I don't think that's accurate Ted, the ones with the partial N were made from a particular plate and the small remnant was most likely never spotted or
removed.

Pat

I don't understand what you mean by "a particular plate" ?


Perhaps the description in my above post isn't clear. So, I will try to elucidate here......

(A) American Litho (ALC) initially printed (incorrectly) the front of Joe Doyle N. Y. Nat'L card. Followed by the back with the PIEDMONT 350 advertisement.
ALC usually printed the PIEDMONT backs first and in a much greater amount. PIEDMONT was ATC's "flagship" Tobacco brand.

(B) An astute ALC employee caught this error (Nat'L) and quickly stopped the press. They removed the word "Nat'L" from the plate which prints the captions.
However, in the process the printer left a tiny remnant of the "N" on the caption plate.

(C) ALC then continued to print Joe Doyle N. Y. . cards. And at this point they also started to print the OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and SWEET CAPORAL backs.

(D) A keen-eyed ALC employee spotted the extraneous printer's mark and stopped the presses. And again the plate which printed the captions was cleared of
this extraneous mark.

(E) ALC then continued printing the correct Joe Doyle cards (with PIEDMONT,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, SOVEREIGN, SWEET CAP, and TOLSTOI backs).


Hey guys, although this is my theory of the events that transpired at ALC in this matter....it is based on my experience working at a Print Shop in my youth.


TED Z
.