Anyone else feeling raw is their only option these days?

[mferronibc]

Originally Posted by scmavl

I've been doing the same over the past six months. Just sent a large order (for me) to PSA with a lot of vintage so we'll see how I did. I've got a '52 Minoso, '58 Mantle, and '60 Yaz RC that I'm hoping will do well. The rest of it will come in expectedly low.

Problem is seems like more and more of raw now are expecting to get comparable prices to what they perceive (or at least advertise) the card would grade without taking on any of the risk that it likely won't or the cost ($65)/time (6-9 months) to actually grade it. Seller's market for sure.

[scmavl]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

Problem is seems like more and more of raw now are expecting to get comparable prices to what they perceive (or at least advertise) the card would grade without taking on any of the risk that it likely won't or the cost ($65)/time (6-9 months) to actually grade it. Seller's market for sure.

Agreed. I tend to look for poorly photographed cards on ebay, as lots of people scroll right by a lackluster thumbnail. I've gotten some really good deals that way. Same with cards sold as a lot instead of individually.

[mferronibc]

Originally Posted by scmavl

Agreed. I tend to look for poorly photographed cards on ebay, as lots of people scroll right by a lackluster thumbnail. I've gotten some really good deals that way. Same with cards sold as a lot instead of individually.

Great tips. I've actually been trying to focus on sellers that don't have a lot of feedback. This goes against my typical screening but if we're talking <$50 cards I feel like more likely to truly be someone that rediscovered their collection and just looking to cash in as opposed to a true dealer who has already made the "it's not worth grading" calculation and decided to sell raw.

[mortimer brewster]

I am still finding good buys from Ebay sellers that have outstanding feedback but only occasionally sell cards. You just have to put in the time to search.

I am a set builder and buy often from Greg Morris cards but closing bids are getting a little too rich for my blood.

I purchased a NM 1971 Nolan Ryan a few months ago from a seller who occasionally sells cards. Card in same condition from Morris sold for 3x what I paid.

Just be patient and don't fall into the trap.

[scmavl]

Originally Posted by scmavl

Agreed. I tend to look for poorly photographed cards on ebay, as lots of people scroll right by a lackluster thumbnail. I've gotten some really good deals that way.

Normally I wouldn't quote myself, but a card just arrived today that 100% illustrates this. I saw this '52 Berk Ross Jackie on eBay, but it looked like it had been in a house fire. Very dark, not presentable at all. But then I looked at the back pic and noticed a clearer shadow line and realized it was just a terrible photograph. So I made a low offer and he took it, as I'd guess he hadn't had any offers yet.

Here is the card's listing photograph vs in-hand today.

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[bobsbbcards]

Two rules for people in the card collecting/selling/investing hobby:

1) Snipe
2) Buy a scanner

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

Problem is seems like more and more of raw now are expecting to get comparable prices to what they perceive (or at least advertise) the card would grade without taking on any of the risk that it likely won't or the cost ($65)/time (6-9 months) to actually grade it. Seller's market for sure.

I agree with this. For those talking about buying raw at a discount to graded, please PM with which sellers do this, because I have not seen one dealer that does this.

I spent last year buying raw at some of the large reputable Ebay sellers (mostly auctions... thousands), I would say 5-10% of the time I was able to pay a discount to the PSA equivalent. Otherwise the card was closing very close to PSA and sometimes higher (highest listing is NM-MT, so sometimes buyers think they are getting MT and pay a lot more). I definitely got some good deals, but overall the market made me look smart by bailing me out of any overpaying.

if you ask me, you all have it backwards, its buying raw where the buyer gets hurt. Sellers love being able to sell raw cards and not have to go through the cost and hassle of grading. they basically get the PSA-equivalent price. All sellers over-grade. Sure the good ones will be in-line a lot of the time, but they definitely tend to over-estimating rather than under-estimating. Even those that offer 'no questions asked' returns know that many buyers just won't go through the hassle to return a card unless it is egregiously misrepresented. Things like centering, subtle wrinkles and paper loss are generally ignored when the seller applies their 'internal' grading system. it does not matter, because in competitive auctions there are too many bidders who push the card to graded pricing..

[Exhibitman]

Centering is a non-issue for fraud; you literally can see the centering in any decent scan so there is no basis to bitch about centering. As for bargains, you just have to forage a bit. Also, your data points may be a bit off. Slabbed cards are definitely selling at a premium right now. I've replaced perhaps 20 slabbed 1970s basketball cards lately with raw and except for a few have obtained similar condition cards for a fraction of what the slabbed cards sold for.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Centering is a non-issue for fraud; you literally can see the centering in any decent scan so there is no basis to bitch about centering.

I never used the word 'fraud' and there is no 'bi----ng'. its just the business. Sellers ignore centering when listing their grades. it is what it is. obviously anyone can check that on a scan and decide for him/her self. but many newbies don't necessarily understand how centering impacts grade and value, and it does not take much to move the market. it took me a lot of buying experience to figure out the game.. my point is that these transgressions are purposeful by the selling community, its how they profit. I call it grade arbitrage. I am talking about the big volume online auctioneers, not the local flea market. if you have enough eyeballs on your auction, you can auction off a card that would be EX+ by any standard scale, describe as NM, and it will sell at PSA NM price. to add insult to injury, some of the folks rail against the TPGs in the description! while at the same time create an alternate universe.

[bb66]

Hey Wid--I am in total agreement with everything you described. Thanks

[Exhibitman]

Who pays attention to the seller's grade on a card? I never do. i judge from the scans and ask about any creases. If the card arrives with a wrinkle back it goes as not as described.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Who pays attention to the seller's grade on a card? I never do. i judge from the scans and ask about any creases. If the card arrives with a wrinkle back it goes as not as described.

Speaking of, I bought a raw Aaron RC and just got the card in hand today, and it's obviously trimmed. No mention of that in the description, but the seller is being a d*** about a return - "It was sold as is, I described it as 'authentic,'" blah blah blah. He pretty clearly knew and was trying to be clever.

There's no way I get stuck with the card if I open a "not as described" return request, right?