How is this not fraud?

[x2drich2000]

Quite simple, while obvious to us it is fake, the seller never actually claims the card is real.

[Snapolit1]

Ebay has about 1.5 billion items listed a day. I really don’t think it’s reasonable for them to weed out every potential permutation of fraud or altered item that anyone could conceivably list on their website. Just my opinion. And, as pointed out, many of these listings are written up in an ambiguous way.

Hell is other people. Not websites, which are tools that can be good or bad depending on the bozos who use them.

[obiwan1129]

Ebay is always a funny place. Computer graphics cards are in incredibly high demand right now. A number of scalpers using bots buy them in bulk online or through Ebay, mark them up and then try to resell them on Ebay for even more money.

A number of folks started posting up a "picture" of a graphics card and conducting auctions on there to slow down the scalpers and their bots. If you at all read the auction description you would see it was a picture that you were bidding on. Ebay to their credit shut a lot of these down pretty quickly but I did like the thought of messing with them.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by obiwan1129

Ebay is always a funny place. Computer graphics cards are in incredibly high demand right now. A number of scalpers using bots buy them in bulk online or through Ebay, mark them up and then try to resell them on Ebay for even more money.

A number of folks started posting up a "picture" of a graphics card and conducting auctions on there to slow down the scalpers and their bots. If you at all read the auction description you would see it was a picture that you were bidding on. Ebay to their credit shut a lot of these down pretty quickly but I did like the thought of messing with them.

Those cards have been hot for years because of bitcoin mining.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ebay has about 1.5 billion items listed a day. I really don’t think it’s reasonable for them to weed out every potential permutation of fraud or altered item that anyone could conceivably list on their website. Just my opinion. And, as pointed out, many of these listings are written up in an ambiguous way.

Hell is other people. Not websites, which are tools that can be good or bad depending on the bozos who use them.

Yes, but when people complain to Ebay they've been ripped off as in this case (check the feedback) then I think Ebay has some responsibility to check it out. The last two buyers were out a significant amount of money.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ebay has about 1.5 billion items listed a day. I really don’t think it’s reasonable for them to weed out every potential permutation of fraud or altered item that anyone could conceivably list on their website. Just my opinion.

Yikes. That's one way to look at it. I guess.

Another way is I've alerted them 100s of times and they've done nothing except continue to collect fees off fraudulent sales.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Yikes. That's one way to look at it. I guess.

Another way is I've alerted them 100s of times and they've done nothing except continue to collect fees off fraudulent sales.

Years ago, eBay sent out a holiday catalog with a counterfeit Peyton Manning jersey on the cover. They LOVE fraud.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Quite simple, while obvious to us it is fake, the seller never actually claims the card is real.

You have to state what you are selling. Handing a counterfeit bill to a cashier and said "I never claimed it was real" will be no excuse.

There was an infamous painting forger who said he never claimed at sale that they were centuries-old originals. He said the buyers came to that conclusion themselves. The police and judge that convicted him said that wasn't enough. He knew they were modern forgeries, so was required to inform sellers. Not telling them that they were fakes he himself made was the legal equivalent of saying they were originals.

There is such a thing as lying by omission.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by drcy

You have to state what you are selling. Handing a counterfeit bill to a cashier and said "I never claimed it was real" will be no excuse.

There was an infamous painting forger who said he never claimed at sale that they were centuries-old originals. He said the buyers came to that conclusion themselves. The police and judge that convicted him said that wasn't enough. He knew they were modern forgeries, so was required to inform sellers. Not telling them that they were fakes he himself made was the legal equivalent of saying they were originals.

There is such a thing as lying by omission.

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by ASF123

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

Ebay's own rule is if you don't know what it is, you shouldn't be selling it. His saying (honestly or dishonestly) he doesn't know if it is real or reprint is enough for the sale to have been against eBay's rules.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by ASF123

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

From my experience on eBay, this simply isn't true. They do have a standard in place to the effect of, "A seller cannot disclaim knowledge of authenticity of the item(s) being listed." They even provide an example - something like a Gucci purse that may be a knockoff, but the seller asserts no knowledge whether it's real or not. What has been very confusing about this policy is that several years ago they added a category called "Unknown". So they are letting sellers choose to break the rules by selecting "Unknown" for their listings! However, if you as the buyer purchase one of these "Unknown" listings, you can cite the policy and get your money back upon returning the phony merchandise. I have done it myself. You can even report listings that are in violation of this policy by finding and selecting the specific reason for the violation in a series of drop-down menus! On that basis, I have reported sellers' listings many, many times, but it sure doesn't look like eBay is planning to police themselves on the issue any time soon.

Originally Posted by drcy

You have to state what you are selling. Handing a counterfeit bill to a cashier and said "I never claimed it was real" will be no excuse.

There was an infamous painting forger who said he never claimed at sale that they were centuries-old originals. He said the buyers came to that conclusion themselves. The police and judge that convicted him said that wasn't enough. He knew they were modern forgeries, so was required to inform sellers. Not telling them that they were fakes he himself made was the legal equivalent of saying they were originals.

There is such a thing as lying by omission.

My point exactly. If he hadn't listed the exact same thing a dozen times it might be a little less fraud like. Maybe he discovered a hoard of perfect 33 Goudey Ruth cards. LOL.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by drcy

You have to state what you are selling. Handing a counterfeit bill to a cashier and said "I never claimed it was real" will be no excuse.

There was an infamous painting forger who said he never claimed at sale that they were centuries-old originals. He said the buyers came to that conclusion themselves. The police and judge that convicted him said that wasn't enough. He knew they were modern forgeries, so was required to inform sellers. Not telling them that they were fakes he himself made was the legal equivalent of saying they were originals.

There is such a thing as lying by omission.

This is how the guy blackmails/leverages his wife in Tenet

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Quite simple, while obvious to us it is fake, the seller never actually claims the card is real.

He lists it as a Goudey in the title. That's claiming it as real, regardless of the nonsense equivocation later.

[troutbum97]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman...0AAOSwQ-NgKnuk


Check out this seller:

* Claims professionally graded ("CGS 4").
* Eight photos - none of the actual grading label.
* Declares no returns for "buyers remorse".

[Casey2296]

I learned a long time ago not to trust guys selling speakers out of the back of their van. Why would you think your getting a 10k card for 1500 bucks. We all have to learn the grifter lesson at some point in our lives.

Be thankful that dealing with longtime members here you can trust their integrity.