Is Memorabilia Catching Up To Pre-War?

[GaryPassamonte]

I basically went from collecting 19th century cards to 19th century photographs to 19th century memorabilia over the last 30 years. The memorabilia is very under priced. The problem is that the available supply has dried up. The offerings in auctions for the early stuff are sparse compared to the past and collectors are holding on to what they have.

[ngrow9]

I've been thinking much the same. It's crazy to me that a PSA 1 Ruth 1933 Goudey #144 sold for $6,200 last night but an actual lower grade Ruth autographed ball -- albeit multi-signed -- can often be found for half of that (at least the last time I dabbled in the market over the summer). I get supply and demand and all, but that seems to be due for a correction one way or the other before too long.

[packs]

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

[ngrow9]

Originally Posted by packs

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

[packs]

I find it ironic as well. But when talking about Babe Ruth or Michael Jordan or Mickey Mantle, they're some of the most forged signatures in the entire hobby while also being some of the most valued. I bought a Ruth from a major auction house with a major TPA only to post it on the board and find out it was fake. No harm came to me in the end but I'm not in a rush to buy either. And if I do I have to consider I might be paying for nothing.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

Maybe this, from PSA's guarantee, is why: "the Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph."

And also this gem from the submission form: "THE MAXIMUM AGGREGATE LIABILITY THAT PSA SHALL HAVE TO CUSTOMER, OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR WHOM THE CUSTOMER MAY BE ACT- ING, ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE, ACT, OMISSION OR OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, SHALL IN NO EVENT EXCEED AUTHENTICATION/GRADING CHARGES PAID BY CUSTOMER FOR THE AUTHENTICATION SERVICES RENDERED BY PSA WITH RESPECT TO THE ITEMS SUBMITTED FOR AUTHENTICATION HEREUNDER."

In other words, PSA's opinion is a popcorn fart; empty gas with nothing back of it.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

....which is ironic, because their autograph authentication is far more reliable than their 20 second card reviews which fail to include a blacklight or ruler.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I think that's fair and probably explains a lot of it. But it still strikes me as odd that a number of new collectors seem willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars based on a grade assigned by PSA, but won't put the same faith in PSA's autograph authentication department.

Like for all those autographed t206s?

[ngrow9]

To be clear, I'm not stating that the TPGs are particularly reliable, just that it seems odd that the new money flowing into the hobby trusts them on one side of the house (card grading) but not the other (auto authentication).

[Bpm0014]

Card grading is a more reliable science than autograph grading/authenticating. (For the most part).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rats60

Like for all those autographed t206s?

To be fair, only one of the exposed fakes (albeit an expensive one) was authenticated by PSA.

The majority of them were SGC authenticated. And if you knew anything at all, you could tell they were bad at first glance. Ridiculous overly shaky examples, presumably created to emulate a very old person's hand writing.

[MVSNYC]

Special (high-quality) Game Used bats have certainly gone up, as well as autographs, ticket stubs, etc. High tide raises all boats...especially Blue Chip names (Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Jeter, Trout, etc).

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by packs

I think one reason for vintage autographs to lag behind is the leap of faith you take on most of them. Modern player autographs have surged through the roof but it's because there is a sense of iron clad authenticity ever since MLB has waded into the arena. An MLB hologram removes any perceived doubt but a TPA letter and it's validity is argued to death every other day.

I took the leap of faith 6-7 years ago to get back into cards because I didn't like all the forgeries in autographs. Then I realized Cards were a Billion Dollar Fraud and people gave me S*** about it and said my valuation of the fraud was WAY TOO high. I ended at 1 Ruth, plus everything else I could have ever wanted, but like most, will not pay 6K for a 1. Everyone has to draw the line in the sand and that's mine.

I've been back dabbling filling some FADED autograph holes and notice they have gone up in price very marginally (20%), unlike all my fake trimmed soaked cards that have gone up 10X.

[packs]

That's why I like to stick to collector grade when it comes to cards. If you mucked around with your card enough to earn the 1 or 1.5 I'm in the market for, you probably wasted more time than I did making the money to buy it.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

I basically went from collecting 19th century cards to 19th century photographs to 19th century memorabilia over the last 30 years. The memorabilia is very under priced. The problem is that the available supply has dried up. The offerings in auctions for the early stuff are sparse compared to the past and collectors are holding on to what they have.

I agree completely. Much of the stuff is scarce, and i think jerseys especially are very undervalued. Especially now relative to cards. But the stuff doesnt get the turnover to show it. Might even be too scarce for the hot money!