Sad State of the Hobby

[mintacular]

This is not a complicated situation. The seller put cards up for sale and accepted the buyer's offer. The seller then decided not to honor the sale and backed out with an excuse. To add insult to injury, the seller then resold the cards for a higher amount to a different buyer. Judge Patrick rules in 100% favor with the original buyer, who started this thread.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by mintacular

This is not a complicated situation. The seller put cards up for sale and accepted the buyer's offer. The seller then decided not to honor the sale and backed out with an excuse. To add insult to injury, the seller then resold the cards for a higher amount to a different buyer. Judge Patrick rules in 100% favor with the original buyer, who started this thread.

Your sister, who doesn't know much about baseball cards, tells you she sold a card on ebay for $500. Curious, you ask for the link and when you look at it, at first it looks like a reasonable deal - an ungraded T206 common in very nice shape for $500. But you look a little closer at this Joe Doyle card and notice it has the N.Y. Nat'l designation behind his name.

Does Judge Patrick:
1. Get on the phone immediately and tell his sister not to ship that card, because it is worth something north of a million dollars?
2. Tell his sister she just threw away a million bucks, but what's more important is, she maintained her integrity?

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Your sister, who doesn't know much about baseball cards, tells you she sold a card on ebay for $500. Curious, you ask for the link and when you look at it, at first it looks like a reasonable deal - an ungraded T206 common in very nice shape for $500. But you look a little closer at this Joe Doyle card and notice it has the N.Y. Nat'l designation behind his name.

Does Judge Patrick:
1. Get on the phone immediately and tell his sister not to ship that card, because it is worth something north of a million dollars?
2. Tell his sister she just threw away a million bucks, but what's more important is, she maintained her integrity?

Two people make a verbal agreement on a deal for $1,000, but nothing is written down. Another person hears of the deal before payment is exchanged and offers $50,000 for the same card. The buyer at $50,000 needs confirmation right away that the deal is done. The seller reluctantly says yes, thinking they will pay the original buyer at $1,000 an extra $5,000 to satisfy them despite not getting the card. Upon promising an extra $5,000, the buyer says it is not enough and wants an extra $20,000. The seller says there wasn't written agreement in the first place so the $5,000 is generous. Who is right and who is wrong?

One can think of increasingly unlikely scenarios and debate that question until the end of time. It's not very relevant. The point is, a verbally confirmed deal should be a deal with extremely limited exception, the OP is right to be upset how this went down and shouldn't be vilified for either pursuing a very good deal, or doing a small amount of research to see who screwed him over and lied about it for some extra bucks in a rising market.

[Jim65]

The seller is wrong for lying about the reason, he should've admitted he made a mistake.

OP is wrong for getting so upset, when there was no money lost. You left a negative feedback, move on.

[Johnny630]

Think of it this way the hobby has always been full of shady characters there’s just more of them now because people see money. Another good way to think of it is; forget about it, move on, the cards probably sucked anyway.

Life is to short and there are many more deals to be had.

[Huysmans]

Heaven Forfend!!! The OP actually looked up someone who ripped him off on a platform the individual WILLINGLY posts his personal information on, for THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE???? Criminal!!! How dare he do what trillions of people do constantly and without second thought and look someone up online! The nerve!

Also Ran-jodh, how dare you not do what the hypocrites here mentioned. You should be assisting the useless seller, and do all of his work completely for him. This is 2021, no eBay seller should be expected to have any integrity, keep their word or know what they're selling...... that's everyone else's job... and shame on you for not helping him get every dollar he "deserves".

He's a new father after all!!!! .... and so much more important than you or what's right apparently....

[campyfan39]

Perhaps the guy who lied to the OP is posting on this thread? Only way I can explain the moral relativism.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Heaven Forfend!!! The OP actually looked up someone who ripped him off on a platform the individual

How was he ripped off? He lost no money.

[Leon]

There aren't trillions of people.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Heaven Forfend!!! The OP actually looked up someone who ripped him off on a platform the individual WILLINGLY posts his personal information on, for THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE???? Criminal!!! How dare he do what trillions of people do constantly and without second thought and look someone up online! The nerve!

Also Ran-jodh, how dare you not do what the hypocrites here mentioned. You should be assisting the useless seller, and do all of his work completely for him. This is 2021, no eBay seller should be expected to have any integrity, keep their word or know what they're selling...... that's everyone else's job... and shame on you for not helping him get every dollar he "deserves".

He's a new father after all!!!! .... and so much more important than you or what's right apparently....

[Chris-Counts]

This is the best advice I've seen all day. At my first card shows in the early 1970s, there were always a couple guys waiting by the door who were ready to flash a crisp $100 at anybody that wandered off the street carrying a shoebox. I learned at a young age that you need to be educated and skeptical, and you can't take your eyes off your stuff.

As for eBay transactions, I try not to get too excited about any purchase until I'm holding it in my hand. And yes, there will always be another good deal waiting right around the corner, if you're willing to put the work in. In fact, when these crazy prices take their inevitable downturn, I suspect there will be even more good deals to be had, to the disappointment of many who bought at the peak.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Think of it this way the hobby has always been full of shady characters there’s just more of them now because people see money. Another good way to think of it is; forget about it, move on, the cards probably sucked anyway.

Life is to short and there are many more deals to be had.

[68Hawk]

I didn't need to hear about the seller's family. As opposed to what some others on here have suggested is fair , they had no part in the transgression and need no mention or be parceled into ridicule. If any of you dodgy characters felt put out dealing with me and got in to mentioning my family on here I'd be googling YOUR address.
You want to mention a bad ebay transaction I think is all good.

[ASF123]

This is an interesting thread. For those arguing that the original buyer was “taking advantage” of the seller - how far does that argument go? Does a buyer have an affirmative duty to contact a seller and say “Hey, your price on this is way low - let me give you 2x” or whatever?

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by ASF123

This is an interesting thread. For those arguing that the original buyer was “taking advantage” of the seller - how far does that argument go? Does a buyer have an affirmative duty to contact a seller and say “Hey, your price on this is way low - let me give you 2x” or whatever?

I think it all depends on the mistake's nature.

For example, if a seller made an obvious patent or typographical error (e.g. forgetting to add an extra zero to the price - $100.00, but meant to type $1,000.00) when listing the item, I think a buyer should show mercy.

However, as a buyer, it is not my job to price another man's merchandise. It is also not my job to do your homework. This is 2021. Information is readily available at everyone's finger tips. There are internet searches, price guides, prior sales data, etc. So, if you underpriced an item that is on you.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

However, as a buyer, it is not my job to price another man's merchandise. It is also not my job to do your homework. This is 2021. Information is readily available at everyone's finger tips. There are internet searches, price guides, prior sales data, etc. So, if you underpriced an item that is on you.

100%! I can’t even believe this is debatable. Completely different story if you found someone with a card/collection and they had no idea what they had- and then you lowballed them. But once they post up on ebay with a price, that’s on them. You shouldn’t have to pay them more after they realized their mistake either. Like what was said earlier... used to be where a man honored their word whether they made a mistake or not.

I’d be ticked if I was the buyer, but it’d probably end there and I’d move on. The facebook / detective work stuff... meh, little weird in my opinion.. but whatever. Just the world today I guess.

Any time I have stuff like that happen, I always think of a scene from A Bronx Tale. Cost you nothing to cross him off your list of “sellers to not buy from”. You got off cheap.

[Exhibitman]

If the error is significant enough no court will enforce the agreement. The Doyle hypothetical is an example. The # is so egregiously low that the buyer shouldn't really expect to get the deal if the seller figures it out. The buyer might even face a lawsuit to rescind the deal on the basis of mistake. That wasn't the case here: $2k instead of $3.2K is not that degree of mistake. $2K instead of $32K probably is.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If the error is significant enough no court will enforce the agreement. The Doyle hypothetical is an example. The # is so egregiously low that the buyer shouldn't really expect to get the deal if the seller figures it out. The buyer might even face a lawsuit to rescind the deal on the basis of mistake. That wasn't the case here: $2k instead of $3.2K is not that degree of mistake. $2K instead of $32K probably is.

This makes sense as far as the courts go. The point I was getting at with the Doyle example is that principle in honoring a deal where a seller might miss out on $1200 vanishes with most people when the amount they could lose out on becomes quite large. Relative principle.

Reminds me of an old story:

Guy walks into a bar and sidles up to an attractive lady. He casually asks, "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" She looks him over and says, "Sure." So then he says, "Would you sleep with me for 50 bucks?" She gets angry and slaps him, saying "What kind of a woman do you think I am?!"

He replies, "We've already established that. What we're trying to determine now is the price."

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by ASF123

This is an interesting thread. For those arguing that the original buyer was “taking advantage” of the seller - how far does that argument go? Does a buyer have an affirmative duty to contact a seller and say “Hey, your price on this is way low - let me give you 2x” or whatever?

I've always noticed that there's a fairly stringent efficient market type of expectation here among many (that I never would've expected or rarely saw when I was dealing in high school during the junk wax era).

Well beyond what happened in the story here. Some seem very uncomfortable when an $850 card sells for either 700 or 1000, as if that was some sort of major screw job to either the buyer or seller.

During those dealing days, I had to find ways to make it worthwhile. One of them was raiding quarter and dollar boxes at the local shows right after the new monthly Beckett came out (and looking for cards that had just shot up). Was this taking advantage of the seller? Am I supposed to point out that he didn't bother to take a (now) $5 card out of the dollar box? Most of them would've looked at me annoyed and said something like "if it's there, that's what it costs"

And as some have mentioned, everyone has ample resources to figure out what something is worth nowadays. Unless it's something really egregious (or one party is purposely misdirecting info to the detriment of the other), this taking advantage concept about selling price gets taken too far sometimes.

As far as this spot, I think a $2000 deal to sell cards that were worth maybe twice that (we don't even know since they weren't graded) should have been honored by the seller. He was in the wrong for reneging to get 3200 elsewhere

[clydepepper]

Three Word Solution:


BST