THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Schilling was on the ballot eight other times previously and didn't get in. The first time he was on the ballot he was at 38% or something like that. Why is it suddenly now that people upset about him not getting in the eight other times he was on the ballot?

2013: 38.8%
2014: 29.2%
2015: 39.2%
2016: 52.3%
2017: 45%
2018: 51.2%
2019: 60.9%
2020: 70%
2021: 70%

Why not just give the writers one shot, one time on the ballot? You're either a HOFer or you're not. Nothing changes with a career between 5 and 15 years after a player retires. Not one additional home run, not one more All-Star appearance, not a single strikeout. So why do the judges change their mind?? If you don't get voted in the first year, then on to one of the other committees. And take away the maximum number of players a person can vote for on any given ballot. Vote for all the players who you think are deserving of the HOF every year and be done with the ones who are not.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Why not just give the writers one shot, one time on the ballot?

Congrats! You just kicked Joe Dimaggio out of the Hall. Took Joe D *three* times to get in.

[Tabe]

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling has said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling as said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

Concerning point one I've said multiple times that "it wasn't illegal then" as my argument, but really thinking about it, I don't think it's an issue of legality. Granted I cannot speak for others, I think that it's not so much that steroids were against the rules, or their legality, it's the fact that, the owners and the commissioner made out like bandits from guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc but when it comes time to give the players their due for helping propel the sport post strike or keep baseball's popularity heading into the 2000's they shun them. Another thing I take issue with is the fact that the Writers that were voting for guys like Clemens, Bonds and Rodriguez to win the MVP are mostly the same writers, that are now in charge of putting them in keeping them out of the hall of fame.

Concerning two, well that's a very fair assessment, I completely forgot about his failed video game company.

Concerning Three and the ortiz issue, I agree on both fronts. Belle Belongs in the Hall of Fame, and if Ortiz gets in before Bonds and Clemens my head will spin

[Ricky]

Ortiz must still be on roids because he looks exactly the same now as he did when he played, unlike say, mark McGuire...

He had one test that came back positive and we don’t have any idea for what. He was tested many, many times over many years and never had another positive test yet kept putting up great numbers. He was never ripped like Bonds, just kind of roly-poly. I’m not convinced Ortiz was dirty.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Ortiz must still be on roids because he looks exactly the same now as he did when he played, unlike say, mark McGuire...

He had one test that came back positive and we don’t have any idea for what. He was tested many, many times over many years and never had another positive test yet kept putting up great numbers. He was never ripped like Bonds, just kind of roly-poly. I’m not convinced Ortiz was dirty.

Alex Rodriguez never tested positive for steroids That doesn't mean he wasn't using them.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by rats60

Alex Rodriguez never tested positive for steroids That doesn't mean he wasn't using them.

Wasn’t ARod suspended?

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling has said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

"he" didn't rip off the state of Rhode Island. That's your opinion. His company accepted a bond sale from thre state t move his company to Rhode Island. They went bankrupt and the state charged his company with fraud for the fact they weren't forthcoming in their projected sales etc. They settled for 2.5 million. Schilling maintains his innocense. He also lost 50 million of his own money.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by cammb

"he" didn't rip off the state of Rhode Island. That's your opinion. His company accepted a bond sale from thre state t move his company to Rhode Island. They went bankrupt and the state charged his company with fraud for the fact they weren't forthcoming in their projected sales etc. They settled for 2.5 million. Schilling maintains his innocense. He also lost 50 million of his own money.

The state actually won $61m from Schilling and his company. Schilling and his company lied to the state when getting the $75m, not telling Rhode Island that the money wasn't enough to fund development of the game they were promising. They also mismanaged the money they did receive.

So, yeah, he - and his company - ripped off the state.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The state actually won $61m from Schilling and his company. Schilling and his company lied to the state when getting the $75m, not telling Rhode Island that the money wasn't enough to fund development of the game they were promising. They also mismanaged the money they did receive.

So, yeah, he - and his company - ripped off the state.

As a Rhode Island resident, this is true. Not many RIers are shedding tears for poor Curt in regard to him not getting into the HOF.