THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[triwak]

I'm disappointed by the lack of inductions, but for more personal (and somewhat sentimental) card-related reasons. There's still a small brick and mortar card shop in my town, very near my favorite watering hole. Every January, I would go down to the shop, pick up the latest Hall inductees (usually for a buck or two), and march over to the bar to show them off to the 3 or 4 friends who are baseball fans (and drink pretty much daily)! This would invariably lead to discussions like we're having here, and more importantly, predictions about the upcoming season, Spring training, player transactions, etc. Well... none of that this year. The pub has closed (at least for now), no one's really out and about anyway, the start of the season may still be in flux, and now no HOFers to add to my collection. Sorry for the sappiness, but this has become a ritual that I really enjoy. Plus, I will be moving to another state soon, so this may have been the last brick and mortar purchase ever? We'll see, I guess. And for what it's worth, I would have voted for Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, and Rolen.

[Mike D.]

Are there “confirmed” PED users in the hall, or “presumed”? I don’t recall Rodriquez failing a test. Unless we’re taking anything Jose Canseco said as “proof”.

I hate that the HOF discussion has come down to discussions of "back ache" and assumptions of guilt or innocence.

Can steroid use cause back-ache? Sure...but you know what else can? Squatting in the summer hear for the better part of 3 hours on a dusty field while wearing polyester.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Are there “confirmed” PED users in the hall, or “presumed”? I don’t recall Rodriquez failing a test. Unless we’re taking anything Jose Canseco said as “proof”.

I hate that the HOF discussion has come down to discussions of "back ache" and assumptions of guilt or innocence.

Can steroid use cause back-ache? Sure...but you know what else can? Squatting in the summer hear for the better part of 3 hours on a dusty field while wearing polyester.

Rodriguez is "presumed" Frank Thomas made some comments about him a while back, but as for confirmed players that have taken PED's that are in the Hall:

Babe Ruth had Goat Testosterone Injected
Mantle, Aaron and Schmidt: All used Amphetamines at least once.
Koufax abused Pain Pills to pitch
Goose Gossage used Amphetamines as well.

Doesn't matter how little or how often they did it, they used at least once.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Seven

Rodriguez is "presumed" Frank Thomas made some comments about him a while back, but as for confirmed players that have taken PED's that are in the Hall:

Babe Ruth had Goat Testosterone Injected
Mantle, Aaron and Schmidt: All used Amphetamines at least once.
Koufax abused Pain Pills to pitch
Goose Gossage used Amphetamines as well.

Doesn't matter how little or how often they did it, they used at least once.

Those are all a bit different than taking steroids/HGH after it's been explicitly banned and is being tested for...both from a legal and "baseball rules" standpoint (written and/or enforced).

But on the other hand...there ya go. Instruct the voters to no longer consider PED use when filling out their ballots, and we're back to the normal arguments!

Also...goat testosterone?! Dear God...that stuff is problematic enough in GOATS, never mind baseball players!