THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by riggs336

Well, as you surmised, no one got in. It will be tough for Bonds and Clemens to pick up over 50 votes next year. Schilling might make it.

No on Schilling, unless the Veterans Committee elects him some day. He has asked to be removed from consideration in his final year of eligibility.

As for Bonds and Clemens, it will be interesting. Arod and Ortiz will be on the ballot, and both have an excellent shot. Under normal conditions, I believe Clemens and Bonds would indeed fall short. But it may be tough for voters to justify Ortiz and Arod while shunning Bonds and Clemens... especially on their final ballot.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by perezfan

No on Schilling, unless the Veterans Committee elects him some day. He has asked to be removed from consideration in his final year of eligibility.

I get the PED argument bc that affects performance, but Schill being left out for what mostly boils down to political views is disappointing. I can understand why he'd be fed up with the process.

[riggs336]

Originally Posted by perezfan

No on Schilling, unless the Veterans Committee elects him some day. He has asked to be removed from consideration in his final year of eligibility.

As for Bonds and Clemens, it will be interesting. Arod and Ortiz will be on the ballot, and both have an excellent shot. Under normal conditions, I believe Clemens and Bonds would indeed fall short. But it may be tough for voters to justify Ortiz and Arod while shunning Bonds and Clemens... especially on their final ballot.

Certainly a feasible perspective. We could have an All-PED class next year. On the other hand there were fourteen blank ballots this year; I predict many more blanks next year as a measure of protest.

[FrankWakefield]

I think Pete Rose was a great hitter. And I'm certain he shouldn't get into the Hall except for when he's purchased an admission ticket. Read The Fix Is In, by Daniel Ginsburg. After reading that, you can still be a Rose fan, but your brain will understand why Pete can't get in, even if your heart wants him in.

Some, a few, of the peds guys were using stuff before there were rules prohibiting use of some of the substances. I don't like the use of that stuff at all, but I see a difference in using something illegal, and in using something that hasn't been ruled on at the time.

I'm a bit biased about McGwire. I think he should one day get in, and definitely Bonds and Sosa. I think A-Rod should get in. Baseball already got their vengeance on him by banning him for a year.

I don't think Clemons should get in. And I think Schilling falls a bit short of my opinion of what a HOFer should be. He was a great pitcher, and great big game pitcher. A smart, thinking pitcher. But short of HOF caliber.

There's a dozen or more folks I'd unvote, if I were the Grand Poobah of the Hall. Kirby Puckett would be the first one out. Baines would be out. There are more who'd go. But fortunately for baseball fans I'm not the Grand Poobah.

Back to Rose... I saw him play in 1964. And I saw him get the hit to pass Ty Cobb's career hits record (I went to the game before that, no hits, and in the parking structure this guy was melting down about no hits, having to work the next night, and he had 4 tickets for the next night. My friends and I bought those tickets, I think $30 each, and saw history). I saw Pete lots. But gambling is what stymied the development of professional baseball at its inception, and only the strict prohibitions about gambling allowed the game to thrive. Pete knew this. He knew not to gamble on the games. BS on telling anyone he only bet for the Reds to win, what the hell is the bookie to think when Pete placed some bet but didn't want to bet on the outcome of the Reds' game??? Pete deserves his hit record, he was a hustling, hitting, pitcher studying machine. But he doesn't deserve the Hall. And hopefully the Hall doesn't go so far downhill that it deserves Pete.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I think Pete Rose was a great hitter. And I'm certain he shouldn't get into the Hall except for when he's purchased an admission ticket. Read The Fix Is In, by Daniel Ginsburg. After reading that, you can still be a Rose fan, but your brain will understand why Pete can't get in, even if your heart wants him in.

Some, a few, of the peds guys were using stuff before there were rules prohibiting use of some of the substances. I don't like the use of that stuff at all, but I see a difference in using something illegal, and in using something that hasn't been ruled on at the time.

I'm a bit biased about McGwire. I think he should one day get in, and definitely Bonds and Sosa. I think A-Rod should get in. Baseball already got their vengeance on him by banning him for a year.

I don't think Clemons should get in. And I think Schilling falls a bit short of my opinion of what a HOFer should be. He was a great pitcher, and great big game pitcher. A smart, thinking pitcher. But short of HOF caliber.

There's a dozen or more folks I'd unvote, if I were the Grand Poobah of the Hall. Kirby Puckett would be the first one out. Baines would be out. There are more who'd go. But fortunately for baseball fans I'm not the Grand Poobah.

Back to Rose... I saw him play in 1964. And I saw him get the hit to pass Ty Cobb's career hits record (I went to the game before that, no hits, and in the parking structure this guy was melting down about no hits, having to work the next night, and he had 4 tickets for the next night. My friends and I bought those tickets, I think $30 each, and saw history). I saw Pete lots. But gambling is what stymied the development of professional baseball at its inception, and only the strict prohibitions about gambling allowed the game to thrive. Pete knew this. He knew not to gamble on the games. BS on telling anyone he only bet for the Reds to win, what the hell is the bookie to think when Pete placed some bet but didn't want to bet on the outcome of the Reds' game??? Pete deserves his hit record, he was a hustling, hitting, pitcher studying machine. But he doesn't deserve the Hall. And hopefully the Hall doesn't go so far downhill that it deserves Pete.

Frank, curious as to why you think bonds and Sosa should definitely get in but not Clemens?

[FrankWakefield]

At a point in time when the rules were clear, he continued using, and lied about using.

Imagine a count of all the Clemens fans back then... subtract out everyone under 13 and over 25, then subtract out those guys and gals not playing baseball or softball... what's left are a bunch of possible imitator kids who were good candidates for trying peds because they wanted to do better at high school or college ball.

I admit I'm biased against Clemons. I think he was a HOF caliber pitcher who persisted in fooling with peds way too long. It was bad for him, bad for baseball, bad for baseball fans, and bad for a bunch of kids.

And I think I'm in the minority and there's a bunch of Clemons fans and supporters. I understand we live in a democracy of sorts. I'm ok with going along with what the majority votes. But that doesn't mean the majority is right... sometimes they are, and sometimes in some instances a majority can be mistaken or wrong.