Interesting Lawsuit involving PSA card

[drcy]

I'm not a lawyer, and there are many lawyers to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you only get what you paid not any appreciation or current value.

[Directly]

With all these fake slabbed Jordan's RC problems, has this been found with Beckett graded card holders too where someone switched cards/labels or faked Beckett holders ?

[swarmee]

Beckett holders are impossible to break without pretty much destroying the slab from future use. So scammers are now selling cards in counterfeit Beckett holders, that even Beckett sometimes can't tell apart.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1435178

SGC were easy to take apart and reseal, and older PSA holders were as well. The current PSA "lighthouse flip" holders are more like BGS and should shatter/crack upon opening rather than just get frosted on the sides. So if you're worried about your cards slabbed before 2019, now may be the time to send the higher valued ones (or the partially frosted ones) in for Reholder.

Add: But if you haven't been following the altering/trimming scandal, this #57 Michael Jordan '86 Fleer has been trimmed a considerable amount of times, and received number grades from all the major graders. The Robert Block thread in the Blowout member feedback section is worth reading.

[bxb]

Is a seller responsible for unknowingly selling a fake card/slab?

Is there liability regardless of whether he knows it's fake?

And if you say yes, what about the seller who sold it to the seller? And so on?

And for all of us, could any of our high value slabs be fake and we don't know it unless the card somehow goes back to PSA.

[swarmee]

We had a big thread a few years ago about unraveling stolen cards that were then unwittingly sold multiple times. The thought at that time was that each seller would have to get reimbursements from the person they bought them from and the original buyer of the stolen goods would return them to the owner for failing to confirm good title. The thief, AFAIK, was a family member who was not prosecuted.

Add: to your question about is every seller liable, do you mean in criminal or civil court? Because it looks like they tried other options, but the statute of limitations was already exceeded in this case.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Going to be tough to prove it's the same card 3 years later methinks.

[drcy]

For stolen items, you pass it down the foodchain. You get reimbursement from the person you bought it from, he from the person he bought it from, etc. There is a statute of limitations-- how long after the sale.

However, stolen items are different than fakes or counterfeit in that stolen items involve items that the buyer and seller never legally owned. It wasn't a valid sale, like you selling your neighbor's house. The original sale (no matter how authentic the item was) was not legal. Same with the all the sales down the foodchain. You can't legally sell something you don't rightfully own. This is also why in the artworld they say "Save the receipt."

I'm no lawyer, but with forgeries and counterfeits you are more able to bypass the foodchain and sue the original source. However, if you sell a wholly faked item (meaning, the holder and/or label is also a forgery), assume you will be asked to give a refund. For a PSA graded fake (legitimate holder and grading but the item in it was misidentified by PSA), then presumably PSA will refund someone and either the buyer or you can get the refund from PSA.

Obviously, learn to authenticate the holder and label and take care who you buy from. Because if it's a legitimate holder and label, things are a whole lot easier for you if it turns out the card is a forgery. If it's a fake in a legitimate PSA holder/label, then someone-- whether the seller or the buyer-- can get the refund from PSA.

Originally Posted by bxb

Is a seller responsible for unknowingly selling a fake card/slab?

Is there liability regardless of whether he knows it's fake?

And if you say yes, what about the seller who sold it to the seller? And so on?

And for all of us, could any of our high value slabs be fake and we don't know it unless the card somehow goes back to PSA.