2021 HOF Ballot

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

What, that bum? He's got a losing W-L record for his career (52-53)

He's got the save total, although worth fewer WAR than either Wagner or Nathan, but yeah, he's probably in the conversation, especially at that level below Wagner.

If Jonathan Papelbon wasn't basically done at age 34, I think he'd have had a a chance...but hard to make the HOF with only 725 IP.

I mean, if we're putting in closers with five great or near-great seasons and lots of bad ones, like Eck, then Rodriguez is a lock.

[toledo_mudhen]

I have often wondered - Just Why Is It that Gil Hodges has never been enshrined? Did he like kill somebodies cat or something?

[alaskapaul3]

There aren't any serious new 2021 guys , but Torii Hunter was a maniac in CF against that baggie.

I like when guys at least 'get the nod' for their second year of eligibility like Abreu and hopefully, Hunter.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I mean, if we're putting in closers with five great or near-great seasons and lots of bad ones, like Eck, then Rodriguez is a lock.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

Couple things:

1) His Cy and MVP were a joke. He wasn't even remotely deserving of either one.

2) Eck was elected because of his relief years. Period. And they simply weren't that good.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Couple things:

1) His Cy and MVP were a joke. He wasn't even remotely deserving of either one.

2) Eck was elected because of his relief years. Period. And they simply weren't that good.

Joke or not, he did win them. Sadly, players seldom get credit for awards they should have won or dinged for awards they shouldn’t have.

And if Eck got elected for just those 5 years, why not other relievers with 5 great years? Do you think the “first modern closer” thing was a big bump? Stanger things have happened!

[Mike D.]

Interestingly, Clemens had the highest pitching WAR in 1992, the year won his Cy Young (Messina was 2nd and also a deserving choice).

He also had the highest WAR in 1990, the year Bob Welch won (Clemens was 2nd, but led in WAR 10.4 vs 2.9).

So...he won 7 Cy Young awards, but should have won 2 more. Crazy!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Joke or not, he did win them. Sadly, players seldom get credit for awards they should have won or dinged for awards they shouldn’t have.

And if Eck got elected for just those 5 years, why not other relievers with 5 great years? Do you think the “first modern closer” thing was a big bump? Stanger things have happened!

There's no doubt he got in for being the "first modern closer". I don't see that as being worth much but the voters clearly did.

There's a LOT of guys who had 5 great years as relievers (I wouldn't say Eck even had 5...). That's kinda my whole point. His career as a reliever, at the end of the day, was nothing special.

[Throttlesteer]

The idea that certain positions shouldn't be in the Hall is confusing. If they're a significant part of the game for the generation, shouldn't they have candidates for the Hall? Should kickers be in the Football HOF? What about defensive-minded defensemen in the NHL?

We celebrate scoring and love to promote the offensive aspects of the game. But, there are a number of players who were the best of their generation and helped teams win in other ways. It's unfortunate great relievers or amazing defensive talents won't get a nod (with a few exceptions).

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

The idea that certain positions shouldn't be in the Hall is confusing. If they're a significant part of the game for the generation, shouldn't they have candidates for the Hall? Should kickers be in the Football HOF? What about defensive-minded defensemen in the NHL?

We celebrate scoring and love to promote the offensive aspects of the game. But, there are a number of players who were the best of their generation and helped teams win in other ways. It's unfortunate great relievers or amazing defensive talents won't get a nod (with a few exceptions).

They don't put kick returners in the Hall. They basically don't put punters in there. Reason being they play so little. Closers are the same. They play 65 innings out of more than 1400 each year. And then only under ridiculously favorable circumstances (no outs, nobody on, with a lead, one inning only). So, if you're going to be that limited, you better be incredibly good for a long time.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

Awesome post! 100% agree. Eck had insane control, from what I recall. In fact, when Ron Shandler does fantasy baseball analysis of pitchers and they have a 6.0 or 7.0+ K/BB ratio and insane BPVs (base performance values), he notes that they are "Eck-like" or in "vintage Eck territory". Something to that effect.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Awesome post! 100% agree. Eck had insane control, from what I recall. In fact, when Ron Shandler does fantasy baseball analysis of pitchers and they have a 6.0 or 7.0+ K/BB ratio and insane BPVs (base performance values), he notes that they are "Eck-like" or in "vintage Eck territory". Something to that effect.

He had a couple amazing years but a career 3.25 K/BB is nothing special.