Factory cuts vs trimming

[Bigdaddy]

One would think that with a high enough magnification, identifying trimmed cards could be detected, at least to a high degree. Looking at any given edge, I envision differences in color (due to accumulated dirt, oil, etc.) from handling the cards for many years, indentations, fiber orientation, etc of a card that was cut 50 or more years ago to one that was cut in the recent past, by most probably a different method.

What am I missing here? A grader would not have to look at all cards, but a higher cost to evaluate a more expensive card at a higher grade would seem to require more diligent methods of examination, including high resolution images of the edges and surface.

[steve B]

That's pretty much all it takes.

Plus knowing what a factory edge should look like.

And in the case of some TPGs, actually looking.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

One would think that with a high enough magnification, identifying trimmed cards could be detected, at least to a high degree. Looking at any given edge, I envision differences in color (due to accumulated dirt, oil, etc.) from handling the cards for many years, indentations, fiber orientation, etc of a card that was cut 50 or more years ago to one that was cut in the recent past, by most probably a different method.

All valid points. But when they spend less than 60 seconds on each card, that kind of scrutiny ain't happening. Right now the model we have, and all anyone cares about is the turn around time on grading. If I send in a minty Mickey Mantle card, my chief concern is going to be that I get it back in a week or so if I pay for that service, NOT that the grader spends extra TLC time in looking under loupes and evaluating edge precision, getting a second or maybe even a third opinion, etc. etc. But perhaps that the type of terms we need to start thinking in for super high-end or rare cards?

As others have pointed out though - for pure matters of dimension and size concern - I would think they could implement a way to measure cards digitally down to a hundreth of an inch or something. If you can do this and make that kind of measurement routine - then there wouldn't be a reason they couldn't quickly measure all cards that way. If it becomes commonplace, then whatever the current "Min Size" requirements are, you would think they could be drastically tightened up based on what the new micro-discrepancies turn out to be. I would be willing to bet that even the graders would be surprised with something like that - at exactly what was more or less normal for a card to be "off" by out of the pack.

[Tere1071]

Until recently I was purchasing 53 Bowman color cards from an eBay seller. I noticed that two of the key cards, #93 Martin/Rizzuto and #99 Spahn were 1/16 on an inch shorter than the other cards I had purchased from him. I returned the two cards to the seller.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

All valid points. But when they spend less than 60 seconds on each card, that kind of scrutiny ain't happening. Right now the model we have, and all anyone cares about is the turn around time on grading. If I send in a minty Mickey Mantle card, my chief concern is going to be that I get it back in a week or so if I pay for that service, NOT that the grader spends extra TLC time in looking under loupes and evaluating edge precision, getting a second or maybe even a third opinion, etc. etc. But perhaps that the type of terms we need to start thinking in for super high-end or rare cards?

As others have pointed out though - for pure matters of dimension and size concern - I would think they could implement a way to measure cards digitally down to a hundreth of an inch or something. If you can do this and make that kind of measurement routine - then there wouldn't be a reason they couldn't quickly measure all cards that way. If it becomes commonplace, then whatever the current "Min Size" requirements are, you would think they could be drastically tightened up based on what the new micro-discrepancies turn out to be. I would be willing to bet that even the graders would be surprised with something like that - at exactly what was more or less normal for a card to be "off" by out of the pack.

With a 1200dpi scan it's possible to measure to just less that 1/1000th of an inch. Add a grid, and you can get even more info, like exactly how much tilt in a diamond cut. I'd have to have a few friends I know do the program, but they assure me it's very easy, if not already a feature on some photo software.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by steve B

With a 1200dpi scan it's possible to measure to just less that 1/1000th of an inch. Add a grid, and you can get even more info, like exactly how much tilt in a diamond cut. I'd have to have a few friends I know do the program, but they assure me it's very easy, if not already a feature on some photo software.

My expectation is that at some point TPG's will go to this, with a significant uptick in grading fees as a result, LOL.

[Johnny630]

In my opinion,This is what a trimmed top edge looks like.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-FLEER-...p2047675.l2557

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This is what a trimmed top edge looks like.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-FLEER-...p2047675.l2557

That's definitely a tilt or angled cut on the top and bottom borders. But how do you know it's trimmed?

[Johnny630]

I can tell... to me in my opinion flip the card over look at the back top border not normal factory cut. Specifically back above the 8 and over to the edge.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

In my opinion,This is what a trimmed top edge looks like.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-FLEER-...p2047675.l2557

+1. Sometimes it's difficult to tell and other times no so much.,

There is a reason I collect oversized cards and isn't to make them normal sized

[steve B]

Does PSA have slightly over size holders, like maybe one for e90-1s?

Just going by the fit in the holder it seems normal sized.