Buyer Beware: CMIZ5290 board member

[BRoberts]

For those posting that they are surprised Kevin "would ruin his reputation over this," if you think *this* incident ruins his reputation, you've not been paying attention.

Bill Roberts

[perezfan]

1933 Gehrig still available.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

For those posting that they are surprised Kevin "would ruin his reputation over this," if you think *this* incident ruins his reputation, you've not been paying attention.

Bill Roberts

Maybe, but I guarantee many of us who were unaware are in the know now.

[ramram]

Four and one half years of B/S/T bumps of the Wagner portrait coming to an end.

Rob M

P.S. Nice bst post Paul G. Just under the wire, lol.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by ramram

Four and one half years of B/S/T bumps of the Wagner portrait coming to an end.

Rob M

P.S. Nice bst post Paul G. Just under the wire, lol.

Leon just closed the thread - the most viewed BST thread 25,008 Views - that's like Cy Young's win record, I can;t see anyone sniffing it.

The man was ahead of time. No wait.......nevermind......I'm thinking of the fake Rolex he's probably wearing.

[AddieJoss]

5 years ago, I bought a couple cards from Kevin. After that he and I negotiated another deal, he accepted and then backed out of the deal ($200) and didn’t sell the cards. I was Not out any money but it was unprofessional, and never bought anything from him again, and would have if his posts were from a different seller.
Cory Weiser

[Tao_Moko]

Tough crowd. I reflect on the soft, pink, pot-bellied and balding crowds at shows and bet none of those guys are here slinging their daggers at Kevin. None of those briefcase weilding or fanny pack wearing(magnifier loupe at the ready) gentlemen passing their judgement here. If they were then I'm certain they would be equally as willing to throw the dagger in person. It's important for middle to advanced aged men to stand tall against the face of the beater card adversary. Of course you should be able to buy a beater and expect to get more than a beater. Caveat Venditor! Mount up prewar baseball collectors and off to forum war!!!! Grab your loupes and protective sleeves! Someone just bumped a post!!!! There's fantasy sports, golf at stake and latte's with special sprinkles to get to. Let no overpriced or too frequently a bump get in your way!!!! It's "go time" men.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I have to disagree that an "A" or "AUT" is a grade. It is an opinion of authenticity but not a grade. A grade is a numerical assessment of condition. When a number grade is assigned the authenticity is implied. But without a number it's not a grade of the card. Poor is the lowest grade, not Authentic.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Tough crowd. I reflect on the soft, pink, pot-bellied and balding crowds at shows and bet none of those guys are here slinging their daggers at Kevin. None of those briefcase weilding or fanny pack wearing(magnifier loupe at the ready) gentlemen passing their judgement here. If they were then I'm certain they would be equally as willing to throw the dagger in person. It's important for middle to advanced aged men to stand tall against the face of the beater card adversary. Of course you should be able to buy a beater and expect to get more than a beater. Caveat Venditor! Mount up prewar baseball collectors and off to forum war!!!! Grab your loupes and protective sleeves! Someone just bumped a post!!!! There's fantasy sports, golf at stake and latte's with special sprinkles to get to. Let no overpriced or too frequently a bump get in your way!!!! It's "go time" men.

Hmmm....
soft? - Maybe?
Pink? - I suppose, not all that pale, but not like I've been working outdoors all summer either.
Pot bellied - depends on where you draw that line. Not svelte, but not awful.
Balding - sorta, I am getting a bit old.

Briefcase - Nope
Fanny pack - No, briefcase would be far more likely.

Would I throw down the dagger in person on someone selling something as something it's not?

Yeah, for sure.
Whether It's Kevin, who you seem to imply is some sort of card selling badass*, or some name calling kid.

Just remember, Old people have lost most of their pride (Goes with the balding and fatness you'll understand someday) and are not at all above fighting dirty. Or pissing people off.
---------------------------
* Worked at a dealership and one of the mechanics was a former genuine Hells Angel. Met him again a few years later, at a card show. Where he was dealing.... hockey cards. Nice guy but...

Hey Gary,
yeah?
Can I ask a question you might not want to answer?
Sure, worst I'll do is say get lost
What's the tattoo that says "Hook" mean?
It's a nickname. I took a guys calf off with a meathook once in a brawl. (Yeah, he was also very open about stuff if asked directly)

He was a really nice calm guy pretty much all the time.
Wherever you ended up Gary I hope the card dealing worked out great.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by steve B

Hmmm....
soft? - Maybe?
Pink? - I suppose, not all that pale, but not like I've been working outdoors all summer either.
Pot bellied - depends on where you draw that line. Not svelte, but not awful.
Balding - sorta, I am getting a bit old.

Briefcase - Nope
Fanny pack - No, briefcase would be far more likely.

Would I throw down the dagger in person on someone selling something as something it's not?

Yeah, for sure.
Whether It's Kevin, who you seem to imply is some sort of card selling badass*, or some name calling kid.

Just remember, Old people have lost most of their pride (Goes with the balding and fatness you'll understand someday) and are not at all above fighting dirty. Or pissing people off.
---------------------------
* Worked at a dealership and one of the mechanics was a former genuine Hells Angel. Met him again a few years later, at a card show. Where he was dealing.... hockey cards. Nice guy but...

Hey Gary,
yeah?
Can I ask a question you might not want to answer?
Sure, worst I'll do is say get lost
What's the tattoo that says "Hook" mean?
It's a nickname. I took a guys calf off with a meathook once in a brawl. (Yeah, he was also very open about stuff if asked directly)

He was a really nice calm guy pretty much all the time.
Wherever you ended up Gary I hope the card dealing worked out great.

I like the cut of your jib Steve.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Tough crowd. I reflect on the soft, pink, pot-bellied and balding crowds at shows and bet none of those guys are here slinging their daggers at Kevin. None of those briefcase weilding or fanny pack wearing(magnifier loupe at the ready) gentlemen passing their judgement here. If they were then I'm certain they would be equally as willing to throw the dagger in person. It's important for middle to advanced aged men to stand tall against the face of the beater card adversary. Of course you should be able to buy a beater and expect to get more than a beater. Caveat Venditor! Mount up prewar baseball collectors and off to forum war!!!! Grab your loupes and protective sleeves! Someone just bumped a post!!!! There's fantasy sports, golf at stake and latte's with special sprinkles to get to. Let no overpriced or too frequently a bump get in your way!!!! It's "go time" men.

Best post I've read in this thread.
But let's not be too harsh... most of the gentleman who pile on in these posts probably don't realize that they're senile old dinosaurs.... or maybe they can't remember??

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Best post I've read in this thread.
But let's not be too harsh... most of the gentleman who pile on in these posts probably don't realize that they're senile old dinosaurs.... or maybe they can't remember??

Now that is funny!!

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Anyone who says ALTERED is a grade when someone uses the phrase "Guaranteed to grade" please stand up and be counted so I can make sure I never do business with you.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Best post I've read in this thread.
But let's not be too harsh... most of the gentleman who pile on in these posts probably don't realize that they're senile old dinosaurs.... or maybe they can't remember??

+1

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Best post I've read in this thread.
But let's not be too harsh... most of the gentleman who pile on in these posts probably don't realize that they're senile old dinosaurs.... or maybe they can't remember??

And yet we still answer your questions....

Old dinosaurs don't get lattes with special sprinkles.

We get coffee flavored coffee.

Latte with sprinkles is a millennial thing.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

And yet we still answer your questions....

Old dinosaurs don't get lattes with special sprinkles.

We get coffee flavored coffee.

Latte with sprinkles is a millennial thing.

Well that sucks, I am old and I love the sprinkles, my wife does tease me about them though.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by ramram

Four and one half years of B/S/T bumps of the Wagner portrait coming to an end.

And not a day too soon. One of the reasons I ignored his bst posts.

[Tabe]

Thought to myself, "what do the grading companies have to say?" So I checked the PSA and SGC sites for their grading scales. Neither company lists "authentic" or anything else non-numeric as a possible grade.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Thought to myself, "what do the grading companies have to say?" So I checked the PSA and SGC sites for their grading scales. Neither company lists "authentic" or anything else non-numeric as a possible grade.

Not sure if this will work, don't know how to do a screen capture and load it...

Here is a link to the PSA pop report for 1952 Topps Cards.
https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball...52/topps/49722

Reading across the row left to right:

Card no (1) / Name (Andy Pafko) / Grade / pop for column headed Auth / and then the population for each numerical grade column eg 1, 1.5, - 10. / Total

Authentic is clearly listed as a grade in the population for the cards that have been graded of that player, it has it's own column directly adjacent to the numberical ones..
I used a calculator to be sure, and indeed the Authentic pop numbers are included in the total population.

If Authentic is not a grade they are doing a great job of misdirection.

Also, below each Auth/numerical grade option are a row for the cards that have been assigned a + assessment and a further row for those that have been given qualifiers.
Authentic graded cards are not given a separate demarcation or row, they are included and indeed graphed as a graded part of the population.

Interestingly it seems BGS have changed their format for cards (since I last looked) and no longer have the Auth designation listed whatsoever.... I haven't been on SGC's website for yonks since they were 'down' for what seemed an eternity.
Strange for Beckett not to offer any statistics for Authentic cards, regardless how you graph it I would think collectors would find the population number valuable in assessing relative scarcity and price?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

If Authentic is not a grade they are doing a great job of misdirection.

Wait, you want PSA to be consistent???? How long have you been collecting?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

And not a day too soon. One of the reasons I ignored his bst posts.

Steadily got inquiries on it. . . . better move fast.

Sort of wonder why he never just gave the damm thing to an AH.

[Oscar_Stanage]

"I guarantee the card to be authentic, and will grade"

In our hobby, this unequivocally means the card will receive a number grade. I have little patience for people who twist words, pretend they mean something else and then attempt to make you feel stupid.

There are plenty of sellers who will take cards back no questions asked, where we don't need silly little protections, platitudes, and meaningless guarantees.

And there are buyers who will find those sellers and send them $1000s via PPFF for the cards they want. and not think twice.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

"I guarantee the card to be authentic, and will grade"

In our hobby, this unequivocally means the card will receive a number grade. I have little patience for people who twist words, pretend they mean something else and then attempt to make you feel stupid.

There are plenty of sellers who will take cards back no questions asked, where we don't need silly little protections, platitudes, and meaningless guarantees.

And there are buyers who will find those sellers and send them $1000s via PPFF for the cards they want. and not think twice.

+1

The guarantee said it all IMO. No encapsulation and returned with an ALT is a refusal to grade. Case closed.

Good lesson for all of us: regardless of who might prevail in a court case, as peers and members of this community (and sometimes even friends) there should be a higher degree of consideration for one another than the bare-knuckles outcome of law or caveat emptor.

And FWIW, I am a proud card-carrying member of the lowest grade card collectors of America:

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Steadily got inquiries on it. . . . better move fast.

Sort of wonder why he never just gave the damm thing to an AH.

Same here...

Dozens of times, I wanted to respond to just one of those endless threads, to say JUST CONSIGN THE DAMNED THING!

But thought it was bad form to hijack someone’s BST post (even for a shady seller and reneger). So just bit my tongue time and again.

If nothing else, this thread provides solid evidence that what goes around comes around.