Zeenut checklists

[rhettyeakley]

Last one is the“large” pose. Many of the size variations are very subtle. In this case if you measured the length of Almada’s image top of head to tip of foot I imagine the length would be different than the other two (but you can’t do that in a scan). Also, how much clearance between top of head and top of card (but this is problematic because it can be off if the card is miscut or trimmed).

Generally what I try to do is look at the background of the image and see if there are differences in what is included in the image (ie the cropping). In the case of Almada there is a second ballplayer in the background at far left of the first 2 examples while the 3rd example pictured that player has been cropped out of the image... thus the entire image has been ever so slightly “zoomed in” resulting in a “larger image”

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Last one is the “large” pose. Many of the size variations are very subtle. . . .
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbE..._as=subscriber

rhettyeakley,

You know your Zeenuts. Obviously from the pictures I provided, PSA misidentified the card as a "large pose" and SCG didn't care which year it was issued -- to SCG it's just a generic 1933-36 Zeenut.

You've hit the nail on the head. There are no good picture guides that distinguish the subtle differences of many similar cards by the year in which they were issued from 1933 through 1936.

To All,

While I have a long way to go, over the past couple of weeks I have put together pictures of about 135 different 1933-36 Zeenuts with coupons that expire April 1st 1934 (issued in 1933), April 1st 1935 (issued in 1934), April 1st 1936 (issued in 1935) or Oct 1st 1936 (issued in 1936).

If people are willing to help, perhaps we can put together an on-line guide of each player's card from this period (1933-36) with scans showing each separate date of issue.

I am willing to post a list of the scans by player name and coupon expiry date I have so that net54baseball readers can post scans of cards with coupons not on that list. It can then be all put together.

What do you think? Is it worth a try? At least, we can resolve the dates of issue of the subtle yearly differences in many of these 1933-36 cards. It's a start.

Let me know what you think.

To rhettyeakley,

I found your video on-line a couple of days ago while looking for more info on Zeenuts and enjoyed it. Nice cards, tough set. Still looking for a 1911 Western Playground Association card.

Mike

[philliesphan]

Mike-

I have over fifty tabbed Zeenuts from 1933-1937 and would be willing to help with. your project should you receive interest from a few other collectors

[brianp-beme]

Below is a list of the 1933-36 cards that were confirmed with coupons, and thus year of issue, in the late 1970's by Jim Horne in his published Zeenut listing. I have transferred that information in a different format as seen on the list, which shows each subject and has four columns, one for each year 1933 through 1936, and indicated within that column whether card had been confirmed. I have it by year, and then sorted by team (as it is the Horne list).

There are bound to be numerous additions to this list since then...please let us know if you have any coupon cards not seen on the list. As you can see, very few had been found for the 1933 Black & White issue at the time, and beside for three Oakland players, all 1936 found were either from the Missions or the Seals. The astericks seen below are for those cards that have been confirmed after Horne's list by an advanced collector. The ones that indicate 'possibly small or large' are ones that size variations have been discovered after Horne's list was published, so size variation of confirmed coupon is not known, at least not to me.

Brian


1933 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1934."

-Mission-
Coscarart
Hafey (small)*

-Portland-
Blackerby
A.E. Jacobs

-Seals-
Cavaney, Mgr.
Davis


1934 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1935."

-Hollywood-
Carlyle
Durst
Haney
Johns
Page
Vitt

-Los Angeles-
Dittmar
Oglesby
Reese (large)
Stitzel

-Mission-
Chelini
Eckhardt (large)
Fitzpatrick
Hafey (large)
T. Pillette (possibly small or large)

-Oakland-
DeViveiros
Glaister
Joiner
Kintana (small)
McEvoy (small)
McIsaacs
Mailho
Mulligan (hands cut off)
Phebus
Pool (possibly small or large)
Salinsen

-Portland-
Cox
Kallio
Palmisano
Sheely (large)

-Sacramento-
Borja (possibly small or large)
Donovan
Hartwig (large)
Horne
House
Kampouris
Lahman
Ostenberg
Salvo
Steinbacker (large)

-Seals-
Backer
Ballou (socks with band - large)
J. Dimaggio (batting)
Douglas
Fenton
Henderson
Herrmann
Mails (large)
Sever
Stutz (bag visible)
Sulik
Woodall (throwing - large)

-Seattle-
Biongovanni
Coscarart
Holland
E. Kelly
Muller
Radonitz


1935 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1936."

-Hollywood-
Carlyle
Jolly

-Los Angeles-
Reese (small)
Statz (possibly small or large)

-Mission-
Almada (large)
Beck
Duggan (probably large)
Eckhardt (small)
Hafey (medium)
Mitchell
Mort (throwing)
Nicholas
Outen (throwing)
Street, Mgr.
Thurston (Mission)
Wright (facing forward)

-Oakland-
Anton (large)
Connors
Douglas (small)
Haid
E.Kelly
Kintana (large)
Ludolph
McEvoy (large)
McMullen
Mailho (possibly small or large)
Muller (large)
Mulligan (hands visible)
Ramondi (small)
Rego
Vitt, Mgr.
Walsh

-Sacramento-
Borja (possibly small or large)
Ellsworth
Hartwig (small)
Salvo
Steinbacker (small)
Stroner
Wirts (small)

-Seals-
Ballou (socks w/band -small)
Becker
Cole (glove on hand)
J. Dimaggio (throwing)
Densmore
Garibaldi (large)
Gibson (white sleeves)
Mails (large)
Marty (white sleeves)
Masucci
Monzo (small)
Newkirk
Norbert (large)
O'Doul (white sleeves)
Powers
Rhyne (side view - foot high)*
Sheehan (white sleeves)
Stitzel
Stutz (no bag in background)
Zinn


1936 - coupon states "This offer expires October 1st, 1936."

-Missions (this year only year designated as "Missions")-
Almada (small)
C.Beck
W.Beck
Francovich
D.Johnson
L.Johnson
Joost
Kamm, Mgr.
Mort (batting)
Nitcholas
Outen (batting)
Rosenberg
Sprinz
Stewart
Stitzel
Stoneham
Thurston (Missions)
West
Wright (looking left)

-Oakland-
Anton (small)
Douglas (large)
Muller (small)

-Seals-
Ballou (socks all black)
Barath
Borja
Cole (no glove)
Gibson (black sleeves)
Gira
Graves
B.Holder
Jorgensen
Mails (small)
Marty (black sleeves)
Masucci
Monzo (large)
Norbert (small)
O'Doul (black sleeves)
Rhyne (side view - foot low)
Salkeld
Sheehan (black sleeves)
Starritt
Woodall (batting)

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Below is a list of the 1933-36 cards that were confirmed with coupons, and thus year of issue, in the late 1970's by Jim Horne in his published Zeenut listing.

To brianp-beme and all,

Your posting of the listing is quite useful. It helps establish the year of issue of many cards that do not have variations and further gives specific years for those that do.

I know Horne, et al, did a lot of work to identify the various poses and picture variations, but without actual pictures I don't think we can fully rely on the conclusions reached.

For example, the list says the Larry Woodall (Seals) with coupon that expires April 1st 1985 is the "large" pose. Comparing my Woodall that has an April 1st 1986 expiry date with one that expires on April 1st 1985 makes clear that the 1986 is the "large" pose and the 1985 is the "small" one.

Yes, they didn't have a Woodall coupon with a 1986 date, but like us they had access to most of the known card variations without coupons. Thus new varieties are few and far between. The question is which variety goes to which of the yearly sets Zeenut issued during this period.

Horne's list contains many couponed cards for which I do not have scans and perhaps these will get posted. I have only a few he didn't list. Maybe more will turn up, but again most of the known variations were know back then.

- - -

Comparing coupon listing in Jim Horne's Zeenut Listing of confirmed coupons in the late 1970's with mine. If an “*” is in front of player's name, the card is on both lists and I have scan. If a “ ? “ is in front of player's name, have no scan but it's on Horne's list. If a player's name is underlined, I have scan, but its not in Horne's list. “Small” and “Large” pose indications are from Horne and need to be verified.

PLEASE POST SCANS OF THE FRONT SIDE OF ANY COUPONED CARD THAT HAS A “ ? ” IN FRONT OF THE PLAYER'S NAME AND ANY OTHER CARDS NOT LISTED. [Of course, if the back side has markings from Collins-McCarthy post that too, otherwise the backs are essentially all the same except for condition.]

1933-36 Zeenuts (coupons expire April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, and Oct 1st 1936).

Coupon expires April 1st 1934

? Blackerby (Portland) (with Portland 1933-35)
? Cavaney (Seals, Mgr.) [note: have April 1st 1935 Caveney not listed in Horne]
* Coscarart (Mission) (with Missions 1930 through first part of 1933, then Seattle for last half of 1933 and all 1934)
? Davis, Curt (Seals) (with Seals 1929-1933)
? Hafey (Mission) (small) (Bud Hafey with Missions 1930-1934, Tom Hafey with Missions 1934-35)
? Jacobs, A.J. "Art" (Portland) (with Portland 1932-33)

Coupon expires April 1st 1935

* Backer (Seals)
* Ballou, William (Seals)
? Biongovani (Seattle)
* Borja (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
* Carlyle, Cleo (Hollywood) dated 1935 or 1936
Caveney, Jim (Seals)
? Chelini (Mission)
? Coscarart (Seattle)
? Cox (Portland)
* DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) batting
? DeViveiros (Oakland)
? Dittmar (Los Angeles)
?Donovan (Sacramento)
* Douglas, Ken (Seals)
? Durst (Hollywood)
* Eckhardt, Ox (Mission) April 1st 1935, shoe partially cut off by white border at bottom (need better scan)
? Fenton (Seals)
* Fitzpatrick (Mission)
*Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe is solid black below white sock
? Glaister (Oakland)
? Hafey, Tom (Mission)
? Haney (Hollywood)
? Hartwig (Sacramento) (large)
* Henderson, Bill (Seals)
* Herrmann, Leroy (Seals)
* Horne, Berlyn (Sacramento)
* House, Andy (Sacramento)
Hunt, Art (Seals)
? Johns (Hollywood)
? Joiner (Oakland)
? Kallio (Portland)
* Kampouris (Sacramento)
? Kelly, E. (Seattle)
? Lahman (Sacramento)
* Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
* Mails, Walter (Seals)
? McEvoy (Oakland) (small)
? McIsaacs (Oakland)
McMullen (Seals)
* Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands not showing
? Muller (Seattle)
? Oglesby (Los Angeles)
? Ostenberg (Saccramento)
* Page (Hollywood)
* Palmisano (Portland)
? Phebus (Oakland)
* Pillette, Ted (Mission)
* Pool (Oakland)
* Radonitz (Seattle)
? Reese (Los Angeles) (large)
? Salvo (Sacramento)
* Sever, Carl (Seals)
? Salinsen (Oakland)
? Sheely (Portland) (large)
* Stitzel, Hal (Los Angeles)
? Steinbacker (Sacramento) (large)
* Stutz, Ed (Seals) bag visible
* Sulik, Ernie (Seals)
* Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr)
* Woodall, Larry (Seals) throwing (this is the small pose, actually April 1st 1936 is the large pose)

Coupon expires April 1st 1936

* Almada, Lou (Mission)
* Anton, Leroy (Oakland) (large)
* Ballou, William (Seals) (socks w/band - small)
? Beck (Mission)
* Becker, Joe (Seals)
* Borga (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
? Carlyle (Hollywood)
* Cole, Albert (Seals) with glove on hnnd
* Connors, Merv (Oakland)
* DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) throwing
* Densmore, Jim (Seals)
* Douglas, Ken (Oakland) (small)
* Duggan, Mickey (Mission)
* Eckhardt, Ox (Mission), full shoe clear of border at bottom (small)
* Ellsworth, Floyd (Sacramento)
* Garibaldi, Art (Seals)
* Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe shows white “lacings”
* Hafey, Tom (Mission)
* Haid, Hal (Oakland)
* Hartwig (Sacramento) (small)
? Jolly (Hollywood)
* Kelly, Ernie (Oakland)
* Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
* Ludolph, Willie (Oakland)
* Mailho, Ernie (Oakland) possibly large or small
* Mails, Walter (Seals) (large)
* Marty, Joe (Seals) white sleeves
* Massuci, Tony (Seals)
* McEvoy, Lou (Oakland)
* McMullen (Oakland)
? Mitchell (Mission)
* Monzo, Vince (Seals)
* Mort, Roy (Mission) throwing
? Muller (Oakland) (large)
* Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands showing
* Newkirk, Floyd (Seals)
? Nicholas (Mission)
* O'Doul, Lefty (seals) white sleeves
? Outen (Missioin) throwing
* Powers, Les (Seals)
? Ramondi (Oakland)
? Reese (Los Angeles)
* Rego, Jim (Oakland)
? Rhyne (Seals) (side view – foot high)
* Salvo, Manny (Sacramento)
* Sheehan, Ken (Seals) white sleeves
* Statz, Arnold 'Jigger' (Los Angeles)
* Steinbacker, Hank (Sacramento)
* Stitzel, Hal (Seals)
* Street, Charles (Mission, Mgr)
* Stutz, Ed (Seals) (no bag in background)
? Stroner (Sacramento)
* Thurston, Hollie (Mission)
* Vitt, Oscar (Oakland, Mgr)
* Walsh, Ed (Oakland)
* Wirts, Elwood (Sacramento)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)
* Wright, Al (Mission)
? Zinn (Seals)

Coupon expires Oct 1st 1936

* Almada, Lou (Mission) (specifically not “Missions” but “Mission”, most others of this series are plural)
? Anton (Oakland) (small)
* Ballou, William (Seals) (socks all black)
* Barath, Steve (Seals)
* Beck, C. (Missions)
? Beck, W. (Missions)
* Borja (Boroja), Tony (Seals)
* Cole, Albert (Seals) no glove
? Douglas (Oakland) (large)
* Francovich (Missions)
* Gibson, Sam (Seals) black sleeves
* Gira, Frank (Seals)
* Graves, Jim (Seals)
* Holder, Brooks (Seals)
? Johnson, D. (Missions)
* Johnson, Lloyd (Missions)
* Joost (Missions)
* Jorgensen, Jolly (Seals)
? Kamm (Missions, Mgr)
* Mails, Walter (Seals) (small)
* Marty, Joe (Seals) black sleeves
* Massuci, Tony (Seals)
* Monzo, Vince (Seals)
* Mort, Roy (Missons) batting
? Muller (Oakland)
* Nitcholas (Missions)
? Norbert (Seals) (small)
* O'Doul, Lefty (Seals) black sleeves
* Outen, Chink (Missions) batting
* Rhyne, Hal (Seals)
* Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
* Salkeld (Seals)
* Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
? Sprinz (Missions)
* Starritt (Seals)
* Stewart (Missions)
*Stitzel, Hal (seals)
* Stoneham (Missions)
*Thurston, Hollis (Missions)
* Woodall, Larry (Seals) batting
* Wright, Al (Missions) (looking left)

Please note, for each player card listed above with a " ? " in front of the player's name, we a picture / scan of the front side of the Zeenut card with coupon attached. These cards are grouped according to the dates the coupons expire (April 1st 1934, April 1st 135, April 1st 1936 and Oct 1 1936).

Please use high resolution scans and if taking the picture by camera, try not to distort the shape of the card by tilting the camera.

Thanks,

Mike

[philliesphan]

.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

.

Coscarart seems to be on the want list of most everyone from Seattle. Thanks for the post.

Mike

[brianp-beme]

Hi Michael, definitely it would be great to get a photo representation of all the 1933-36 Zeenut with coupons. I am not a Zeenut coupon collector myself, and only have one Zeenut with coupon throughout the years. My cards were typically in the hands of coupon greedy kids who tore the bottom half of the card off to remove the coupon.

As far as the Woodall throwing card is concerned, I think Horne was correct. Below I have included a scan of a printed off scan of both Woodall throwing cards, April 1st 1935 and April 1st 1936. I measured both, and the earlier one does measure about 1/32" larger, from the top of Woodall's cap to bottom of his shoe. Perhaps you have a (within the) year variation, which as far as I know until now has not shown up in the 1933-36 set. For example, if a couponed card is a smaller picture in one year, another size for that year has not been found It would be nice to see your two Woodall cards in comparison.

Brian

[rsst206]

Here are a few not on your list

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Hi Michael, definitely it would be great to get a photo representation of all the 1933-36 Zeenut with coupons. I am not a Zeenut coupon collector myself, and only have one Zeenut with coupon throughout the years. My cards were typically in the hands of coupon greedy kids who tore the bottom half of the card off to remove the coupon.

As far as the Woodall throwing card is concerned, I think Horne was correct. Below I have included a scan of a printed off scan of both Woodall throwing cards, April 1st 1935 and April 1st 1936. I measured both, and the earlier one does measure about 1/32" larger, from the top of Woodall's cap to bottom of his shoe. Perhaps you have a (within the) year variation, which as far as I know until now has not shown up in the 1933-36 set. For example, if a couponed card is a smaller picture in one year, another size for that year has not been found It would be nice to see your two Woodall cards in comparison.

Brian

Brian,

I glad you raised the question (actually several questions), because we all need to decide what to call the different varieties besides by date of issue. There are many variations besides the "poses." For "poses," I have been distinguishing the cards by whether the entire picture is more cropped than its comparator, and calling the one with more cropping the "large" size, and the other one that shows more picture the "small" one.

That brings us to another issue to resolve. We do not have the measurement of the central figure for most scans and can only make comparative sizing by making the images of the cards the same height and aligning the coupon
bars.

There's no doubt from your measurements that the Woodall image is larger in the 1935 card. From the scans below, 1935 card shows more image than the slightly more cropped 1936 one. Even though the 1936 card you pictured has a little more of the right side showing, it seems the 1935 still has a slight bit more. How do you suggest we address this? It's going to come up with lots of cards.

The end card (1935) in the first row is the same as the first card in the second row. You'll notice that 1935 card has part of the next card on the sheet printed on its right, indicating the end of the card image. While we don't yet have a piece of the next card for the 1936 one, it seems that extrapolation of the images we have indicates the 1936 card has less of the far right part of the original image than the 1935.





As to in year variations, I often think I've found one, especially when looking at small scans of large lots being offered at auction. After a long and careful examination, it never turns out to be one. It's usually just a fuzzy image of an expiration date so that on first glance a "5" looks like a "6" or visa verca.

Mike