1953 Topps PSA 10 Mickey Mantle IPO on Collectible App a Game Changer

[RL]

easy to pass on this.

[rjackson44]

Id rather own the card or cards,imo horrible investment ,,run fast!!

[japhi]

Illiquid investment that kicks off no income and has very high fee’s. Sign me up now!

[Dpeck100]

When I started the thread I knew the lion share of this group would poo poo it and I also thought it would be a good idea just to let people know what is about to hit the memorabilia market.

Here you have a PSA 1 Wagner that just sold for $1,146,000 through Mile High.

https://www.milehighcardco.com/1909_...-LOT72191.aspx

Wagner prior sales

Two PSA PR-FR1 Honus Wagners sold for $109,638 in 2004 and $132,000 in 2005

A PSA PR-FR 1 Honus Wagner sold for $400,000 in 2009

A PSA Poor 1 Honus Wagner sold for $402,900 in 2013

A PSA Poor 1 Wagner sold for $609,294 in 2017

A PSA Poor 1 Wagner sold for $1,169,875 in 2020


Every single one of you would have said the same thing at each of these times.

Perhaps this card doesn't turn into a home run but there will be some that will for sure. The creation of mutual funds and pushing them to the masses helped stock prices move from single digit price earnings multiples to some north of a 1000.

I am not suggesting this is as novel of a concept of Jeff Bazos coming on CNBC in 1999 and basically forecasting the future of commerce and having multitudes of people laugh at him only to go on to the be the richest person on the planet but do not full yourselves into thinking this won't have a dynamic impact on the collectables market. Many will choose to participate and many will choose not to but this is going to increase demand. It is that simple.

[benjulmag]

IMO there is a significant difference between investing in a rarity as opposed to a condition rarity. In contrast to a T206 Wagner (or unique works of art), in the case of the '53 Mantle one is investing in the perfect grade. As has been discussed ad nauseum, one person's 10 is another person's 9. On top of this one is also investing in the long-term credibility of PSA, which IMO entails its own risk. I think at $2.5M it is a very risky investment.

[icurnmedic]

Per Wikipedia( I know, I know)" In 1991, Copeland sold the card to ice hockey figures Wayne Gretzky and Bruce McNall for $451,000. " Not sure what the difference is except of course more "shares" and "investors". My concern would be , who is housing and handling the card and can I trust them.

For the record, I probably wouldn't but it is tempting.

[sbfinley]

Sean, what’s the commission on the final sale?

[hcv123]

Overall interesting concept. As others have raised - the "ipo" price is very relevant - is the 53 Mantle a 2.5M card? Not in my book. Would definitely need a high degree of transparency.

Per OP - "There is also the element of stocks and bonds where they are really just pieces of paper"

By that logic so is every business contract, mortgage, eviction notice, lease, etc. With Stocks those "pieces of paper" are shares of ownership in an ongoing underlying business. Bonds - a legal obligation of an underlying company to return the investment with interest.

Not poo pooing, just approaching realistically - it has possibilities. Not of particular interest to me, but if it were, would need to do much more due dilligence.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

IMO there is a significant difference between investing in a rarity as opposed to a condition rarity. In contrast to a T206 Wagner (or unique works of art), in the case of the '53 Mantle one is investing in the perfect grade. As has been discussed ad nauseum, one person's 10 is another person's 9. On top of this one is also investing in the long-term credibility of PSA, which IMO entails its own risk. I think at $2.5M it is a very risky investment.

It might be risky. Time will tell.

That said the perfect grade goes for huge money. A PSA 9 Gretzky OPC is say 35k. A PSA 10 is at least 700k. You and I may not agree on which we like more but the market always agrees the 10 is better.

In terms of PSA. There were people trying to short the stock at $18. Just looked at it and it closed over $46. The line is not just around the building but around the block and down the street.

[sbfinley]

I'll look into it. I've invested in art through Masterworks for a couple years and the return has seemed to have been okay, but I don't really follow the art market and I mainly did it on a whim. Fee wise, investments like this are usually on the same par with Hedge Funds which are nonetheless popular.

The dollar is so inflated right now, though, I have paused investing more capital in anything except gold, silver, and bitcoin right now. I've even paused my weekly purchase of FAANG stocks which I've done for years now. I think it's the right idea at the wrong time. Smart money should be looking at undervalued plays right now and the sports card market doesn't really fit that outline. If we do, however, have a K shaped recovery which some are calling for now, top end collectibles will have more room to rocket.

[Sean1125]

Interesting how many people speak from a place of no knowledge.

No trading fees.
No cash out fees.
Daily trading market for liquidity.

Very small upfront fee only the original seller pays.

This makes sense

$617k/$1000k within 24 hours disagrees with the opinions of many cynical individuals here, although I always see some people exude negativity.

I'm in.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Interesting how many people speak from a place of no knowledge.

No trading fees.
No cash out fees.
Daily trading market for liquidity.

Very small upfront fee only the original seller pays.

This makes sense

$617k/$1000k within 24 hours disagrees with the opinions of many cynical individuals here, although I always see some people exude negativity.

I'm in.

The site explicitly states over and over that no secondary market is guaranteed.


“We are hoping to provide more information on potential secondary market trading frequency in the coming months. Collectable’s vision and mission is to provide a dynamic secondary market with trading access at least five days a week; however, there is no assurance that this market will develop or, if it does, that that sufficient liquidity will establish itself or secondary market technology will allow our vision to become a reality”

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

When I started the thread I knew the lion share of this group would poo poo it and I also thought it would be a good idea just to let people know what is about to hit the memorabilia market.

Here you have a PSA 1 Wagner that just sold for $1,146,000 through Mile High.

https://www.milehighcardco.com/1909_...-LOT72191.aspx

Wagner prior sales

Two PSA PR-FR1 Honus Wagners sold for $109,638 in 2004 and $132,000 in 2005

A PSA PR-FR 1 Honus Wagner sold for $400,000 in 2009

A PSA Poor 1 Honus Wagner sold for $402,900 in 2013

A PSA Poor 1 Wagner sold for $609,294 in 2017

A PSA Poor 1 Wagner sold for $1,169,875 in 2020


Every single one of you would have said the same thing at each of these times.

Perhaps this card doesn't turn into a home run but there will be some that will for sure. The creation of mutual funds and pushing them to the masses helped stock prices move from single digit price earnings multiples to some north of a 1000.

I am not suggesting this is as novel of a concept of Jeff Bazos coming on CNBC in 1999 and basically forecasting the future of commerce and having multitudes of people laugh at him only to go on to the be the richest person on the planet but do not full yourselves into thinking this won't have a dynamic impact on the collectables market. Many will choose to participate and many will choose not to but this is going to increase demand. It is that simple.

Sure the wags has performed well. The SP 500 was under 700 bucks in 2009. Sits around 3500 today. And yes I get that is a cherry picked example but so is the Wagner.

And the problem with this scheme as an investment is you aren’t coming in at market price - there is likely a significant premium attached to the 2.5mm - and the fee’s are most likely outrageous. When the card sells, fees will again be outrageous.

So as a roll the dice, have fun, I think it’s cool. 10k is a nice vacation in Hawaii so I’m not going to knock anyone that likes to play with expendable cash.

But as a traditional investment these things are a joke for the reasons above.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by japhi

Sure the wags has performed well. The SP 500 was under 700 bucks in 2009. Sits around 3500 today. And yes I get that is a cherry picked example but so is the Wagner.

And the problem with this scheme as an investment is you aren’t coming in at market price - there is likely a significant premium attached to the 2.5mm - and the fee’s are most likely outrageous. When the card sells, fees will again be outrageous.

So as a roll the dice, have fun, I think it’s cool. 10k is a nice vacation in Hawaii so I’m not going to knock anyone that likes to play with expendable cash.

But as a traditional investment these things are a joke for the reasons above.

It is hard for me to take your post seriously when you cherry pick the March low. We don't know when that card sold during 2009 and it came back to end the year over 400 points higher.

I will cherry pick now. In 2004 the SP was was higher than where it ended in 2009. The Wagner went from $109,638 to $1,169,875.

Completely destroying the SP. Bare in mind most people with money don't have all of their money in the SP and what has driven a massive amount of the recent move is 6 stocks. Investor returns have not tracked the SP even remotely.

[Snapolit1]

Would love to know if some of the folks who think this is a swell idea and just happen to have talking points, detailed statistics, and the like readily at hand are actually investors and/or funders.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is hard for me to take your post seriously when you cherry pick the March low. We don't know when that card sold during 2009 and it came back to end the year over 400 points higher.

I will cherry pick now. In 2004 the SP was was higher than where it ended in 2009. The Wagner went from $109,638 to $1,169,875.

Completely destroying the SP. Bare in mind most people with money don't have all of their money in the SP and what has driven a massive amount of the recent move is 6 stocks. Investor returns have not tracked the SP even remotely.

Yes I understand all that, even mentioned it was a cherry picked sample.

Tesla was what, 80 bucks a few years ago? 6x in 24 months what can we take from that? Outproduced almost every widely traded sports card. Trades at 1000x earnings. What does that tell us? We are in a crazy asset bubble, context is I’m down on anything that isn’t a value play. I’ll take JPM long term over a 53 Mantle or TSLA.

I’m low risk, long term, etf / bluechip / dividend investor. So I am definitely not the target market here. But I do love the hustle and as a spec play/ gambling I get the appeal.

Question for you since you are big on this as an investment. What do you have the market value of that card being today? Asking sincerely , I have no idea what that card would sell for.

Either way interesting discussion and I don’t root for these things to fail, I hope your 10k becomes 100k, this isn’t a sum zero game so ideally we are both right.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is hard for me to take your post seriously when you cherry pick the March low. We don't know when that card sold during 2009 and it came back to end the year over 400 points higher.

I will cherry pick now. In 2004 the SP was was higher than where it ended in 2009. The Wagner went from $109,638 to $1,169,875.

Completely destroying the SP. Bare in mind most people with money don't have all of their money in the SP and what has driven a massive amount of the recent move is 6 stocks. Investor returns have not tracked the SP even remotely.

Lord knows I feel this. It was like there was a party going on and I wasn’t invited... the Russell 2000 has been lagging since 2016 and I’ve been lagging right along with it.