Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

The world’s only 8” by 36” pennant holder?

[bocca001]

Here are the Phillies and Pirates minis. Does this Phillies pennant suggest that HANCO maybe made the pennants with stars orbiting hats? I know that design is common for the Phillies, but it is very rare for some other teams (e.g., the Giants pennant from a week or so ago).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here are the Phillies and Pirates minis. Does this Phillies pennant suggest that HANCO maybe made the pennants with stars orbiting hats? I know that design is common for the Phillies, but it is very rare for some other teams (e.g., the Giants pennant from a week or so ago).

Correct, the Phillies always had this logo, Trench used it for years. As for the early 70s series with all teams ... perhaps. There seem to be lots of Yankees/Mets pennants that have some similarities and that would suggest Hanco, I believe Domer located them in NY.

[Fballguy]

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand.

Boy is that one brutally unattractive collection of pennants ... I swear I think the Ad Flag artist intended to scare little children with his sketches. Not only that, but these pennants were seemingly cut by a child with scissors and often the spine is like a full inch away from the border. It is interesting to see all of them together, however… I know the Padres has been auctioned before as a PCL pennant and I think the Milwaukee Brewers as one from the turn of the century!

[bocca001]

I have a two different versions of the Astros (all orange, multicolor). They are both softer felt and decent quality. I also have two different versions of the Giants. They both look and feel like what I know to be football bootlegs (very stiff material, strange cuts, weird spines). Maybe the Astros were just early and there are lower quality versions produced at a later date.

Not sure if these are related, but I keep seeing versions of this Houston Colts pennant (blue on orange). I bought one of these for $6 a few years ago, believing it to be some kind of more recent copy. They keep selling on ebay for $50-$100.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Boy is that one brutally unattractive collection of pennants ... I swear I think the Ad Flag artist intended to scare little children with his sketches.

Are you talking condition or design? I actually like most of those (overlooking the giant hunks out of some). You know what they say, “Different strokes....”

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Are you talking condition or design? I actually like most of those (overlooking the giant hunks out of some). You know what they say, “Different strokes....”

I'm with you Rob. I dig these. Not sure what chomped on them but other than that, they're cool.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Are you talking condition or design? I actually like most of those (overlooking the giant hunks out of some). You know what they say, “Different strokes....”

Correct, “to each his own”. It’s the Ad Flag graphics of which I am not a fan. This is mine .... is that a bat or a knapsack? Why the huge ears? What’s he about to step on? Brutal!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand.

I can think of no pennant by ADFLAG or WGN that ever bore an MLB logo. Like, not a single one. When MLB began licensing their marks in 1969, it appears they offered only Trench and ASCO this right. So, you won't find anything by other companies with the MLB logo because they would never have been officially licensed to make MLB pennants.

That doesn't mean they didn't make MLB pennants in 1969; it just means they weren't "officially licensed" merchandise.

I believe ADFLAG gave up on professional sports pennants by 1969, perhaps even a few years earlier. I could be wrong on this; but, after speaking with their owner, that's the impression I was left with. WGN, however, seems to have hung on through 1969, perhaps even a year or two later. They made a Reds pennant referencing them as "The Big Red Machine," which suggests it was made after 1969.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I can think of no pennant by ADFLAG or WGN that ever bore an MLB logo. Like, not a single one. When MLB began licensing their marks in 1969, it appears they offered only Trench and ASCO this right. So, you won't find anything by other companies with the MLB logo because they would never have been officially licensed to make MLB pennants.

That doesn't mean they didn't make MLB pennants in 1969; it just means they weren't "officially licensed" merchandise.

I believe ADFLAG gave up on professional sports pennants by 1969, perhaps even a few years earlier. I could be wrong on this; but, after speaking with their owner, that's the impression I was left with. WGN, however, seems to have hung on through 1969, perhaps even a year or two later. They made a Reds pennant referencing them as "The Big Red Machine," which suggests it was made after 1969.

So would you say these are Ad Flag and made prior to 1969? The Brewers and Rangers are definitely post-1969. The Expos, Padres, Astros, Royals may or may not be as well.

I've always attributed these two football pennants to Ad Flag but they are from 1972. They are very similar in style to the baseball pennants pictured.

[Domer05]

These two football pennants do indeed look like ADFLAG's work. They're monochrome, full body illustration, and tassel-less. Additionally, the steeler graphic was adapted from a larger rendition of the same player used for NFL and AFL pennants in the 1960s. And the matching texts confirms both were from the same maker.

When were these made do you suppose?

As to the baseball pennants ... I recognize most to be from ADFLAG. The Oakland A's one is by Trench. Not sure about the Padres one ... if made by Trench in 1969 or later I'd expect to see the MLB logo on it, which this lacks. Perhaps it was made in 1968, in anticipation of the team's creation? It's very similar to a white Padres pennant that Keezer made at the decade's end.

The Rangers, Royals, and Brewers one are a mystery to me....

The Astros one is an ADFLAG for sure.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand.

I believe this group was made in the Chicago area. This “style” were one of the larger pennant collections I purchased in the past. There was an equal “quality” football style as well. I purchased probably 100-200 pennants like this from a guy whose family were vendors in the 50’s and 60’s time selling between both Wrigley and Comiskey park as well as in Milwaukee. If I remember correctly the guy was in southern Wisconsin. I never saw the Rangers style, but I had many of the others. They were all that later 60’s felt, not the stiffer synthetic stuff from that era. These were all unsold stock that had been sitting for years.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand.

Don Draper (Mad Men) is raising his hand

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Don Draper (Mad Men) is raising his hand

Haha...That's good company. Just read the article. How'd you find it? I wonder if that pennant really dates to 1965?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Haha...That's good company. Just read the article. How'd you find it? I wonder if that pennant really dates to 1965?

Not long ago I binged the series, and I remembered seeing it, so I just googled “Mad Men Mets pennant” and it came up!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Correct, the Phillies always had this logo, Trench used it for years. As for the early 70s series with all teams ... perhaps. There seem to be lots of Yankees/Mets pennants that have some similarities and that would suggest Hanco, I believe Domer located them in NY.

Correct. HANCO was also known as the HANCO Art Novelty Co. Looks like they were in business as early as 1946 when they were located at 121 W. 27th St. in New York City. They existed through the 1980s; but were dissolved by the 1990s. Although they clearly made those early 1960s AL and NL mini pennants, we haven't found much more from them that ties them to professional sports pennants. They seem to have focused on travel/souvenir pennants.

Football Rob once found a NY Football Giants pennant by them; but, I think that's really it for them. I'm not aware of anything else. They may indeed have made some limited runs for New York teams....

I don't believe HANCO made that full size Houston pennant. I think they copied the artwork of others when they put that mini set together, as evidenced by that orbiting hat artwork they used--which seems to have been borrowed from Trench, as Greg points out.