Does The National Still Happen This Year?

[Exhibitman]

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

T

Could be way worse though:

I'm pretty sure we could buy that "venue" in Detroit for roughly 2 Poorly Graded 33 Ruth's

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

Detroit jokes! Always fresh, funny, and original.

[Michael B]

All of the handwringing about The National going the west coast does not accomplish much unless there is a bloc of western dealers who can get together and come up with a plan. If a group of heavy hitters got together and ambushed The National you may get a reaction. You have a large card convention 3 weeks to a month prior to the National or a week or two later. Too early and you are tap dancing around the Fourth of July holiday and virtual (for now) school ending. If you have it shortly thereafter you may be able to tempt the west coast collectors who bite the bullet and begrudingly travel to Chicago or Cleveland. The appeal of a show that they can drive to within a few hours with more money in their pocket may sway quite a few. Southern California may be good. I am not too familiar with the convention centers down there other than Long Beach which is relatively small, but cheap close parking. People keep mentioning Las Vegas. Yes, they have a few convention spaces. I recall going to the one in the Venetian, I believe, for the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Show and it was a good size. There are always lots of hotel rooms except possibly during the CES (Consumer Electronics Show). The big issue, big as an elephant's butt, is the heat during the summer. Certainly you can move easily between some of the casinos with the monorail. However if you want to step outside and are not used to the heat it will be tough to take. Other cities may work like Phoenix or Denver. San Franciso too expensive overall. I view Dallas as no better than Chicago. It is really not west. It is more south central. If a dealer would not travel to Chicago why would he want to drive the 10 across AZ and NM and the 20 through most of Texas in constant 90º+ weather? Just some thoughts to ponder.

[SAllen2556]

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Cobo.waterfront-1bsml-d9b6c93e22-70041e012a.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

Surely we will get a harsh rejoinder from all the upstanding 1960 used car salespersons who collect sportscards

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Attachment 412700

I can appreciate bristling at the tired comments about Detroit. Just as stale as 'Mistake by the Lake' Cleveland. Since Detroit is 300 miles East of Chicago and 160 miles Northwest of Cleveland it is a moot point. It is still 'in the east'.

[ocjack]

I recall back in the early days when there were shows on the West Coast, it was almost impossible for new dealers to reserve a spot due to all of the tenured dealers. I knew before I arrived, which dealers I would always see front and center at the entrance. And which dealers I would find buried way in the back. I was able to set-up by sharing a table with a lower-level tenured dealer - so we were in the back. We would know that once the doors opened it would take a good 30-45 minutes before we would start seeing convention-goers. Once they started adding corporate booths, the back of the show was a wasteland.

Tenure is a nice perk for loyalty, but it also acts as a negative to allowing new dealers to showcase their wares. Maybe some form of lottery for the tenured dealers allowing perhaps 70% of them to reserve tables and a randomized drawing for table location.

Bottom line, maybe this is the year to rethink how they have run the National up to now and perhaps new ideas and locations should be considered by a new group of individuals willing to take on the burdens/rewards of holding such an event. Monopolies are never a good thing. After all, if I'm not mistaken, the National began on the West Coast and is the location of most all of the larger-attended shows. And dealers from other areas of the country were more than happy to attend.

Just my 5 cents.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ocjack

After all, if I'm not mistaken, the National began on the West Coast and is the location of most all of the larger-attended shows. And dealers from other areas of the country were more than happy to attend.

I don't remember if there was a National in 1980.

I definitely recall that the following Nationals were as followed.....

1981 Detroit

1982 St. Louis

1983 Chicago

1984 New Jersey

I missed the one in Detroit, but was at the St. Louis, Chicago, and NJ shows.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I don't remember if there was a National in 1980.

I definitely recall that the following Nationals were as followed.....

1981 Detroit

1982 St. Louis

1983 Chicago

1984 New Jersey

I missed the one in Detroit, but was at the St. Louis, Chicago, and NJ shows.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

\

1980 was the 1st National, Labor Day Weekend in the LA Area IIRC

[brianp-beme]

Posting this from Wiki (because Wiki knows all, and is going to tell your mama on you)

1980 Los Angeles, California Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel (First NSCC Show)
1981 Detroit, Michigan Plymouth Hilton
1982 St. Louis, Missouri
1983 Chicago, Illinois Holiday Inn, O'Hare Airport
1984 Parsippany, New Jersey Aspen Hotel
1985 Anaheim, California Disneyland Hotel
1986 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center
1987 San Francisco, California Moscone Center
1988 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Hall
1989 Chicago, Illinois Hyatt Regency Hotel
1990 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center (First venue to host two NSCC shows)
1991 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center (Over 100,000 attended, NSCC record)
1992 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center
1993 Chicago, Illinois McCormick Place
1994 Houston, Texas George R. Brown Convention Center
1995 St. Louis, Missouri Cervantes Convention Center
1996 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
1997 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
1998 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
1999 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center (25,000 attended, lowest NSCC attendance since the 1980s)
2000 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2001 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2002 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2003 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2004 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (First three-time NSCC host)
2005 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2006 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2007 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2008 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2009 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2010 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2011 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2012 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2013 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center (First six-time NSCC host)
2014 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Third-highest attendance - over 43,000)
2015 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2016 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2017 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2018 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Approx. 45,000 attendees)
2019 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2020 Ain't gonna happen (my poignant commentary/prediction)

Brian

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

This is hilarious!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

This is hilarious!

Should show 1989 donruss/ Topps littered and in junk piles around the buliding