Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

Surprises me that Lolich isn’t mentioned more often. He along with Kaline were the team leaders on the Tigers for many years. I know he isn’t in the Koufax, Carlton, Johnson, etc discussion......but I know I could make a very strong case to have him in the HOF rather then some other recently voted in players.

His career ERA being the league average (104 ERA+), plus leading the league in more negative things than positive things is a hard case to overcome. We're getting pretty far down the list to get to Lolich.

[G1911]

If we now want to make the argument that Koufax is best because his ERA, FIP and WHIP for a career are lower than the other candidates (Context really seems to be missing), he still loses. Jack Pfeister has the lowest career ERA of a left hander. His WHIP and FIP is better than Koufax too. If the time and place and context and longevity don't matter, then why isn't he the greatest ever? Using the "logic" used in the arguments for Koufax, Koufax still doesn't come out on top. Other pitchers have had equal or better seasons, other pitchers have anecdotes from guys they played against, others have better stats even context is stripped away, and if you ignore longevity, it gets even more absurd with the guys you can proclaim #1 using the same argument made for Koufax.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by G1911

If we now want to make the argument that Koufax is best because his ERA, FIP and WHIP for a career are lower than the other candidates (Context really seems to be missing), he still loses. Jack Pfeister has the lowest career ERA of a left hander. His WHIP and FIP is better than Koufax too. If the time and place and context and longevity don't matter, then why isn't he the greatest ever? Using the "logic" used in the arguments for Koufax, Koufax still doesn't come out on top. Other pitchers have had equal or better seasons, other pitchers have anecdotes from guys they played against, others have better stats even context is stripped away, and if you ignore longevity, it gets even more absurd with the guys you can proclaim #1 using the same argument made for Koufax.

You are right Pfeister is better. I would rather have Pfeister.over Koufax any day