Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

We are talking about who was best, not feelings and emotions.

Facing a guy like Sam McDowell or Sandy Koufax or Walter Johnson or Nolan Ryan will obviously "feel" different than facing a knuckleball pitcher like Niekro, or a junkball pitcher with brains and control, like Tommy John.

But there are guys who had more success hitting heat rather than butterflies.

I'm talking about a person who used a stat to compare Niekro to Pedro, two pitchers I personally feel are at opposite ends of "greatness" when I think about actually watching them pitch. So, yes, I think that's the feeling I'm talking about. I'm also talking about the feeling YOU got when YOU watched them, not some third party.

If you never watched Pedro pitch I understand your indifference.

Talking about what YOU saw is a big part of passing down the game to people who didn't see a person play. You can analyze Bernie Williams's stats all you want and deduce he wasn't an elite player. But Yankee fans will always consider him a legend because they watched him play. There is room in discussion for these things.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm talking about a person who used a stat to compare Niekro to Pedro, two pitchers I personally feel are at opposite ends of "greatness" when I think about actually watching them pitch. So, yes, I think that's the feeling I'm talking about. I'm also talking about the feeling YOU got when YOU watched them, not some third party.

If you never watched Pedro pitch I understand your indifference.

When I watched games on TV, I could tell Pedro looked very tough. I also thought Dave McNally seldom threw a hittable pitch - always on the corners. I never saw Grove but his stats make it obvious that he was the same way, and for a long career.

I caught a knuckleball pitcher in my sophomore year in college, and one of his floaters that hit the dirt late bent back my index fingernail on my throwing hand which made me miss a few games. So I have a lot of respect for how hard it is to hit those things, or even track and block them when they suddenly dive.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

When I watched games on TV, I could tell Pedro looked very tough. I also thought Dave McNally seldom threw a hittable pitch - always on the corners. I never saw Grove but his stats make it obvious that he was the same way, and for a long career.

I caught a knuckleball pitcher in my sophomore year in college, and one of his floaters that hit the dirt late bent back my index fingernail on my throwing hand which made me miss a few games. So I have a lot of respect for how hard it is to hit those things, or even track and block them when they suddenly dive.

See, not so hard. That was an interesting anecdote that I'm glad you shared because it offers insight a number doesn't.