Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

My point is that Marichal and Gibson are obviously contemporaries of Koufax. Just as Vance is obviously a contemporary of Grove. If you are going to allege that Vance is not because he burned out early, and Grove continued to pitch peak years, then Gibson and Marichal are not contemporaries of Koufax either. See how absurd the argument is when it's Koufax?

See post 173 if you still don't understand the timeline. Vance's prime is directly contemporary with the first part of Grove's. This is not hard.

Vance was not a contemporary of Grove. Vance pitched in the National League. When you talk about ERA crowns or ERA+ for Grove, what Vance did has no relationship.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

Vance was not a contemporary of Grove. Vance pitched in the National League. When you talk about ERA crowns or ERA+ for Grove, what Vance did has no relationship.

I never said he was competing against Vance for league leads. Read it again, it even credits them for winning crows in the same exact year. Vance’s peak directly and absolutely overlaps Grove’s. The claim was that it did not, which is 100% false, as we can see who did what in what year. Grove was starting his run as the best in the AL as Vance had his brief peak as the best NL pitcher.

I am amazed that the year well-documented events happened is so controversial.

[Touch'EmAll]

Post-season Koufax was big time, people remember that ! Kershaw...well, not so much, and people remember that as well. Perhaps not included in normal analysis is post-season , but boy oh boy, it does matter.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Post-season Koufax was big time, people remember that ! Kershaw...well, not so much, and people remember that as well. Perhaps not included in normal analysis is post-season , but boy oh boy, it does matter.

Absolutely does matter, no question. Koufax was great in every single start. Kershaw has been pretty mediocre overall - a bunch of good starts mixed with a bunch of bad starts and a handful of good/awful relief appearances. I do wonder how Sandy would have fared pitching in the current postseason format of 3 rounds.

[Jim65]

Why are we expected to look at Koufax extremely dominant years and disregard his bad years? His 4 year span might be the greatest ever but his career was 12 years not 4. Those bad years were also him pitching and have to be considered when judging him against other all-time greats

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Why are we expected to look at Koufax extremely dominant years and disregard his bad years? His 4 year span might be the greatest ever but his career was 12 years not 4. Those bad years were also him pitching and have to be considered when judging him against other all-time greats

I think we're all debating the "peak." Otherwise, anyone who'd take Koufax's career over Grove, Spahn, Johnson, or Carlton is pretty crazy.

[Edwolf1963]

I vote for Josh Towers ��

.. she-it, he’s a righty. Um, OK, Tippy Martinez then ��

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Absolutely does matter, no question. Koufax was great in every single start. Kershaw has been pretty mediocre overall - a bunch of good starts mixed with a bunch of bad starts and a handful of good/awful relief appearances. I do wonder how Sandy would have fared pitching in the current postseason format of 3 rounds.

Ok, just one more thing.

I suspect, pretty damn well.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Post-season Koufax was big time, people remember that ! Kershaw...well, not so much, and people remember that as well. Perhaps not included in normal analysis is post-season , but boy oh boy, it does matter.

Agree. Kershaw might end up with top-10 career stats, but his current postseason record is what we'll remember.

Sorta like AROD vs Reggie. AROD was a much better player, but nobody wanted to see him batting for the home team in the WS! (Well, I did, but I'm a life-long yankee hater.)