Reconstructing the 1963 Topps 6th and 7th Series Sheets

[Cliff Bowman]

The only cards that I have found so far of the 6th series that have parts of two different color based cards are Curt Flood and Steve Dalkowski. The card above Flood is a blue based red inset circle Daryl Spencer, and the card below Dalkowski is the checklist in the yellow based red inset circle row.

[BillP]

great stuff. no sp's.

[Cliff Bowman]

It's crude and I need to learn how to learn to do better graphics, but this is how I believe the sheet layout of the 1963 Topps 7th series sheet goes, these are the edge cards on each row. I haven't been able to figure out what the left edge card of the red based yellow inset circle row is yet. Sam Mele and the Cardinals team card are on the yellow based blue inset circle row, the four player rookie cards with Gary Peters and Marcelino Lopez are on the red based yellow inset circle row, Danny Murtaugh and the Tigers team card are on the red based green inset circle row, the four player rookie cards of Pete Rose and Rusty Staub are on the blue based orange inset circle row, the four player rookie cards of Willie Stargell and Ron Hunt are on the blue based red inset circle row.

[Cliff Bowman]

I will break down what I currently have for each of the three 22 card color blocks of the 6th and 7th series 1963 Topps, I will start with the 6th series yellow block. The only cards I have placed are the four edge cards but I know of quite a few cards that are either next to another card or cards that are opposite of each other. On the blue inset circle row I know that Harry Craft-JC Martin-Eddie Kasko are consecutive, on the red inset circle row I know of three pairs of cards that are side by side, Jack Fisher is left of Joe Schaffernoth, Norm Bass is left of Roland Sheldon, Felix Torres is left of Bob Johnson, and these blue inset circle cards are opposite of their red inset circle counterparts, Paul Toth- Ray Sadecki, JC Martin-Felix Torres, Harry Craft-Bob Johnson.

[BillP]

Cliff or others, how would one submit the good work on the 63 high series to beckett to get the publications aligned with the fact that there are no sp's here? Looks like Cliff has nailed them all. So if there is other information that we don't know about driving 1963 sp's let's hear it or go forward with this research as the facts. Hopefully 66 and 67 will play out the same way to identify DP, SP and XSP.

[Cliff Bowman]

I know I have to have better graphics so I will try it again. I'm nowhere near as savvy as Darren, but this is the best I can do for the time being. This is how I believe the top half of the 6th series sheet is laid out, I will do the bottom half in the next post. I'm almost certain that I know all 11 cards that are in each of the 12 horizontal rows in each series, the problem is knowing exactly where they are placed. It will take more miscut cards being discovered over time. ETA, the sheet splits up on cellphones which I was afraid of. ETA again, I messed up and have 12 spots in the horizontal rows when they should be 11.

[Cliff Bowman]

This is how I believe the bottom half of the 6th series sheet goes. ETA, the sheet splits up on cellphones which I was afraid of. ETA again, I messed up and have 12 spots in the horizontal rows when they should be 11.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BillP

Cliff or others, how would one submit the good work on the 63 high series to beckett to get the publications aligned with the fact that there are no sp's here? Looks like Cliff has nailed them all. So if there is other information that we don't know about driving 1963 sp's let's hear it or go forward with this research as the facts. Hopefully 66 and 67 will play out the same way to identify DP, SP and XSP.

Ain't nobody gonna listen to me, I have to beat my head against the wall to get the Trading Card Database to make minor corrections.

[Cliff Bowman]

I finally solved something that has been bugging me the last few years. I haven't gotten to it yet, but the one row that I knew the order of most of the cards was the 7th series yellow based blue inset circle row. The only thing I didn't know was the order of the ninth and tenth cards, Billy Klaus and Russ Snyder, but now I do thanks to this eBay auction. It goes Cliff Cook eighth card, Billy Klaus ninth card, and Russ Snyder tenth card. Now I need to figure out the Pagan, Osborne, and Adair cards.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Ain't nobody gonna listen to me, I have to beat my head against the wall to get the Trading Card Database to make minor corrections.

Personally, the 'formal' guides have always seemed to me to mostly publish what certain people want to be true or insisted was true, rather than any formal study using verifiable fact of that which actually is true. Many sets have the wrong dates, many cards marked as rookies are rather ridiculous (how many years did they insist Ruth's rookie was the 33 Goudey?), and SP tags seem to be applied almost at random. It's more time consuming, but I keep my own notes for each set I'm interested in because the published information is so frequently wrong, or unverified and unsupported.

I'll check my 63 set for series 6 miscuts tomorrow.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillP

Cliff or others, how would one submit the good work on the 63 high series to beckett to get the publications aligned with the fact that there are no sp's here? Looks like Cliff has nailed them all. So if there is other information that we don't know about driving 1963 sp's let's hear it or go forward with this research as the facts. Hopefully 66 and 67 will play out the same way to identify DP, SP and XSP.

We have an uncut sheet of 1967 Topps. We just don’t know how many times each card was printed. The SPs and DPs are pretty clear. The 1966 sheet is a work in progress. We can identify a few errors in the lists, but there is still a lot of work to do. 1963 Topps we really don’t know enough to say anything. There are questions that have not been answered and assumptions made without evidence.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by rats60

We have an uncut sheet of 1967 Topps. We just don’t know how many times each card was printed. The SPs and DPs are pretty clear. The 1966 sheet is a work in progress. We can identify a few errors in the lists, but there is still a lot of work to do. 1963 Topps we really don’t know enough to say anything. There are questions that have not been answered and assumptions made without evidence.

Tell me what assumption I have made and I will show what evidence I have. I have miscut and print error cards showing cards from the yellow block blue inset circle row and the red block green inset circle row that were either at the top or the bottom of the sheet. I have miscut cards that contain parts of two different color block cards showing that the blue block orange inset circle row butts up against the red block green inset circle row. You are absolutely correct that the way I have the color blocks laid out on the sheet is speculative, the reason I did that is I was going by how the wrong backs work out. Every wrong back I have ever seen from the 1963 set is simply a card from a sheet that had the back printed upside down, no exceptions. While looking through them I noticed that a yellow block blue inset circle wrong back always has a red block green circle wrong back, a yellow block red inset circle always has a red block yellow inset circle wrong back, a blue block orange inset circle always has a blue block red inset circle wrong back, and vice versa. No exceptions. In order to make this work out, this was the only way I could get the sheets to follow that pattern. The Curt Flood is at the top right corner of the sheet and the Jay Hook is at the lower left corner of the sheet, if you check eBay or WorthPoint it will show a wrong back Curt Flood with a Jay Hook back or vice versa every time. Other than the placement of the 22 card color blocks on the sheet, all evidence clearly shows that each series had 66 cards, there were three different color blocks of 22 cards each, the yellow block blue inset circle row and the red block green inset circle row were on each end of the sheet, the blue block orange inset circle row butted up against the red block green inset circle row, and there are no short prints unless an entire 22 card color block was somehow short printed.