Jackie Robinson RCs taking off

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I always enjoy rookie card debates but since I do not collect rookie cards it is just a hobby hypothetical for me. I collect sets. My oldest sets, with the exception of the 1923 Fleer set I am working on still, are Bowman and Topps sets, so those are the earliest JR cards I have. I like those. I have never carried much for the image on the Leaf card.

If you did not have any of his cards and could pick one to get, what would it be ?

Yeah, that Leaf Jackie image is not good. The 52 Topps though, is fabulous.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Yeah, that Leaf Jackie image is not good. The 52 Topps though, is fabulous.

completely agree, and if I have to pic an early card it would be the 49B over any of the others discussed here. Regarding the 52 Topps, its just a very nice under-appreciated card, its my favorite as said early. Also, great conversations and points here very interesting to hear other point of views.

[DeanH3]

There has been some excellent research on the bond bread set by CharlieBrown (Shaun Fyffe). He found evidence that the set was not just regional, but also distributed in other major league cities. If so, that should merit this card being considered his rookie over the Leaf/Bowman. No?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

There has been some excellent research on the bond bread set by CharlieBrown (Shaun Fyffe). He found evidence that the set was not just regional, but also distributed in other major league cities. If so, that should merit this card being considered his rookie over the Leaf/Bowman. No?

No.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

There has been some excellent research on the bond bread set by CharlieBrown (Shaun Fyffe). He found evidence that the set was not just regional, but also distributed in other major league cities. If so, that should merit this card being considered his rookie over the Leaf/Bowman. No?

I think we're at the point the market dictates if a non-nationally distributed card is considered a rookie. For post-WW2 items it's generally Topps and Bowman in the vintage realm but before that is can depend, especially pre-WW1.

[DeanH3]

Here's some of the info from the research. If the market determines his Leaf card is his rookie card then that's fine. But it should at least be aknwoledged that the Bond Bread card was not a regional issue only. And, has the market finally decided that the Leaf card is not a 1948 issue date?

Taken from Shaun Fyffe's research. Obviously I didn't paste everything. Just pertinent info with regards to the portrait card.

The first card was the Portrait-Facsimile card with the bio back. This card was first seen in Harlem in June / July of 1947, and was distributed by grocery store owners, and also in promotional packages with two slices of bread and coupons.

It should be noted that, as early as June of 1947, African-American newspapers in all major baseball U.S. cities began running advertisements promoting Jackie's endorsement deal with Bond Bread, and also the availability of the promotional card. This is quite interesting, as it was initially believed that Branch Rickey would not allow Jackie to sign an endorsement deal until the season was over, as he didn't want it to be a distraction.

Come September of 1947, the card's distribution expanded to every major city from Montreal to St. Louis. This Bond Bread set should no longer be considered a regional set for that very reason. As such, the Bond Bread facsimile-signature card should be considered Jackie's true rookie card / first nationally distributed rookie card.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Here's some of the info from the research. If the market determines his Leaf card is his rookie card then that's fine. But it should at least be aknwoledged that the Bond Bread card was not a regional issue only. And, has the market finally decided that the Leaf card is not a 1948 issue date?

Taken from Shaun Fyffe's research. Obviously I didn't paste everything. Just pertinent info with regards to the portrait card.

The first card was the Portrait-Facsimile card with the bio back. This card was first seen in Harlem in June / July of 1947, and was distributed by grocery store owners, and also in promotional packages with two slices of bread and coupons.

It should be noted that, as early as June of 1947, African-American newspapers in all major baseball U.S. cities began running advertisements promoting Jackie's endorsement deal with Bond Bread, and also the availability of the promotional card. This is quite interesting, as it was initially believed that Branch Rickey would not allow Jackie to sign an endorsement deal until the season was over, as he didn't want it to be a distraction.

Come September of 1947, the card's distribution expanded to every major city from Montreal to St. Louis. This Bond Bread set should no longer be considered a regional set for that very reason. As such, the Bond Bread facsimile-signature card should be considered Jackie's true rookie card / first nationally distributed rookie card.

Are you talking about the promotional card that was given away? What qualifies as a major city? Is it only MLB cities or were they available in the 5th and 7th largest cities in the US? Were they available throughout each city or only in African American neighborhoods? Why are there so few available if they were a national issue?

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by rats60

Are you talking about the promotional card that was given away? What qualifies as a major city? Is it only MLB cities or were they available in the 5th and 7th largest cities in the US? Were they available throughout each city or only in African American neighborhoods? Why are there so few available if they were a national issue?

That's a lot of hairs to split. Again, if the market decides the '49 Leaf is his rookie then so be it. But we can at least acknowledge the Bond Bread wasn't a regional issue only.

I think another fair question is would the Leaf be so much more popular than the Bowman if the Leaf was correctly recognized as a '49 issue from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, the Leaf is a GREAT card. But would the Bowman still be looked at as second fiddle?

Originally Posted by DeanH3

There has been some excellent research on the bond bread set by CharlieBrown (Shaun Fyffe). He found evidence that the set was not just regional, but also distributed in other major league cities. If so, that should merit this card being considered his rookie over the Leaf/Bowman. No?

Yes, absolutely. There's plenty of evidence that the 1947 Bond Bread Portrait w/ Facsimile was distributed by grocers in several American cities prior to the rest of the 13 card white border set and the card basically exploded overnight once Shaun provided the evidence in the thread you referenced. This is his RC in my opinion and I also own a 48/49 Leaf which was produced at least one year later.

[ALR-bishop]

Very nice looking card, Dan

Thanks Al!

[ALR-bishop]

His toughest cards for me to get were his 55 and 56 Topps Hocus Focus cards.


Here is his mysterious 1973 Topps "1953 Reprint" card ( mysterious in the sense 3 of the 8 cards in the set are incorrectly identified and the puropse and origin of the set ambiguous)



And not long back SCD did an article on this scarce but recurring variant ( it is not a miscut)