Talking & showing T205's...Completed the set ? then try for T205 "Quad Squad" subsets

[orioles70]

Part of my T205 master set (only*missing Wilhelm and Mathewson variations) is*represented by at least 2 examples of all 11 tobacco brands and I have at least*one of each brand that is a Hall of Famer.

My question -- is this a unique subset given the fact that there are only 2 known Hall of Famers with*Hindu backs (Johnson and Duffy...I have Duffy) and 1 known Hall of Famer with a*Drum back (Brown)?


Hall of Famers I have by back


American Beauty - black ink
Chief Bender SGC 60 EX 5


Broad Leaf - black ink
Zach Wheat


Cycle
Joe Tinker PSA 5 EX


Drum
Mordecai Brown PSA 1 PR-FR


Hassan - factory 30
Roger Bresnahan - mouth open


Hassan - factory 649
Joe Tinker


Hindu
Hugh Duffy


Honest Long Cut
Frank Baker
Chief Bender
Roger Bresnahan - mouth closed
Mordecai Brown
Frank Chance
Ty Cobb
Eddie Collins - mouth closed
Eddie Collins - mouth open
Clark Griffith
Miller Huggins
Walter Johnson
Rube Marquard
Christy Mathewson
John McGraw
Tris Speaker
Bobby Wallace - with cap
Bobby Wallace - no cap one line
Bobby Wallace - no cap two lines
Zach Wheat


Piedmont - factory 25
Frank Baker PSA 3 VG*
Chief Bender PSA 4 VG-EX*
Fred Clarke
Fred Clarke PSA 5 EX*
Hugh Duffy
Addie Joss
Rube Marquard PSA 4 VG-EX*
Zach Wheat PSA 6 EX-MT*


Polar Bear
Eddie*Collins - mouth cld - PSA 5 EX*
Ed Walsh


Sovereign
Fred Clarke. SGC 70. EX+ 5.5


Sweet Caporal - factory 25 black ink
Cy Young


Sweet Caporal - factory 25 red ink
Johnny Evers


Sweet Caporal - factory 42 black ink
Hugh Duffy PSA 5 EX
Hugh Jennings



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[gonzo]

I’d have to say it’s unique unless whoever has the Hindu Johnson also has a similar group. Some other HoFs -could- exist with Hindu backs (anyone with the same backs as Johnson, so Young or Jennings), but I haven’t heard them reported as existing yet. A Drum Wheat could exist but has not been reported yet.

If you count “blank back” as a back, there’s a Speaker and a Cobb, and I believe a Mathewson, though I’ve never seen a scan of the latter. There’s also the McGraw scrap from Leon’s collection that Heritage auctioned a few years back. And I believe that a Collins Mouth Closed probably exists, but I’ve never heard one reported.

You might throw Piedmont 42 into your list as well. A bunch of Hall of Famers are available with the P42 back.

[tedzan]

Another group of T205's that fascinate me are the Minor Leaguers. I prefer the artwork on these 12 cards over the designs of the
other 196 subjects in this set.
Also, it is interesting that American Lithographic (ALC) printed a group of 12 subjects in the last Series (460-only) of the T206 set
which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". Very similarly, ALC printed this group of 12 subjects representing Minor Leaguers at the tail
end of their T205 print run. How do we know these cards were printed late in the T205 game, just read their bios. Their bios have
information which indicates ALC printed these 12 guys circa Fall/Winter 1911. They are the T205 version of the "Exclusive 12".















Hey guys......Let's keep this T205 "ballgame" rolling, show some more T205 cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[gonzo]

It's possible that the 14 "Cycle-Hassan 30-Piedmont 25" short-prints (Joss, Grant, Karger, etc.) were replaced by these 12 MLs.

I posted a thread a couple of months ago showing a case in which a T205 Minor Leaguer was printed on the same sheet as a National Leaguer. Maybe they padded the sheet out with a couple of other players to make up the difference.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=281581

[tedzan]

Gonzo

Very neat, thanx for posting your Mattern card which shows an adjacent Newark player.

Here's a miscut John Titus card showing us that Tony Smith was adjacent on the printed sheet.




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Part of my T205 master set (only*missing Wilhelm and Mathewson variations) is*represented by at least 2 examples of all 11 tobacco brands and I have at least*one of each brand that is a Hall of Famer.

My question -- is this a unique subset given the fact that there are only 2 known Hall of Famers with*Hindu backs (Johnson and Duffy...I have Duffy) and 1 known Hall of Famer with a*Drum back (Brown)?

Great run of Hall of Famers. It could very possibly be unique. Aren’t there multiple examples of the Brown with a Drum back?

[orioles70]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Great run of Hall of Famers. It could very possibly be unique. Aren’t there multiple examples of the Brown with a Drum back?

Yes, there is certainly more than one copy of the Mordecai Brown Drum back (one may still be on ebay...was on there for a while) but I have never seen anyone else say they have a T205 Hall of Famer example with each type of all 11 brands of tobacco advertised on the back...it's tough since you would have to have the Mordecai Brown Drum back AND either a Walter Johnson or Hugh Duffy Hindu back since they are the only Hall of Famers known to exist with those backs.

Does anybody have an educated guess as to copies that exist of those 3 T205 cards...Brown Drum, Johnson Hindu, Duffy Hindu?

John

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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Yes, there is certainly more than one copy of the Mordecai Brown Drum back (one may still be on ebay...was on there for a while) but I have never seen anyone else say they have a T205 Hall of Famer example with each type of all 11 brands of tobacco advertised on the back...it's tough since you would have to have the Mordecai Brown Drum back AND either a Walter Johnson or Hugh Duffy Hindu back since they are the only Hall of Famers known to exist with those backs.

Does anybody have an educated guess as to copies that exist of those 3 T205 cards...Brown Drum, Johnson Hindu, Duffy Hindu?

John

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Hi John

Trust me.....Huggins and Wheat will eventually be discovered with DRUM backs. Ten years ago, when I first started studying the front/back permutations of T205 cards,
there were just 20 known with DRUM backs. Since then, 7 of the 12 additional T205 subjects which I predicted have been discovered. There are only 5 more remaining
to be discovered with the DRUM back.

Originally Posted by tedzan

. . .


Listed here are the 32 subjects that were printed with the T205 A = B = C = D backs.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


The above 5 names in bold letters have not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back.
But, they have been confirmed with the A - B - C backs. Therefore, I expect these
5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.
.

And, as you know the DRUM guys and the HINDU guys are mutually-exclusive.

Here's my current Checklist for the HINDU backs..…(please chime in if I have omitted any HINDU's).

Originally Posted by tedzan

List of the 23 subjects currently confirmed with HINDU backs (with respect to their Team affiliation)......


New York Giants
-------------------
Leon Ames
Josh Devore
W. R. Dickson

Cincinnatti Reds
-------------------
Robert Bescher
Richard Egan
Harry Gaspar

Chicago Cubs
----------------
John Kling
John Pfeister

Detroit Tigers
----------------
George Simmons
Oscar Stanage

Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
William Bransfield
Fred Jacklitsch
Sherwood Magee

Washington Senators
-------------------------
Walter Johnson
George McBride

Boston Red Sox
-------------------
Eddie Cicotte
Clyde Engle
Jacob Stahl

Boston Rustlers
------------------
Bayard Sharpe

Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
Edgar Lennox

Chicago White Sox
--------------------
Hugh Duffy

Pittsburg Pirates
--------------------
Albert Leifield

St Louis Browns
-------------------
William Bailey

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.