T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


....Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign…. American Beauty .…. UZIT


[/B]This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1061.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Two more new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey. Neither of these 2 inputs have this "printer's mark" in their caption. This 13-year Survey suggests to us that we can expect
to find this "printer's mark" on a Joe Doyle card on the average of only ONE out of every 16 cards.




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's mark - -^



UPDATED May 28, 2020 (374 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........13..........147

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........140

Polar Bear..............4............32

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 351

23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/374 = 6.15%


Hey guys, interest in this topic has diminished; therefore, unless there are any more
responses......this ends the Joe Doyle "printer's mark" substitute for his "Nat'L" card.

Moving on to the next T206 topic, so stay tuned.


TED Z
.

[Leon]

This is a very friendly bump so we know this hugely important file didn't get lost in our database crash.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Tell us of your first experience(s) regarding the BB card Show where you acquired your first T206 cards. I'll begin with my story which is from 40 years ago.

In the 1970's - 1980's, two of the major BB card Shows in the East were in Willow Grove and Valley Forge (Pennsylvania). They were situated in the George Washington
Motor Lodge Convention Halls. Bob Schmierer and Ted Taylor promoted the Willow Grove Show. Tony and Rose Carrafiell promoted the Valley Forge Show. Major Dealers
loaded with unbelievable stuff were set-up at these Shows

In 1980, Bill Heitman published his book "The T206 Monster". It motivated me to start a T206 set, so I drove to Willow Grove. Upon entering the Show, I was amazed at
the size of the crowd. After several hours of maneuvering, I achieved my goals. I acquired a bunch of T206's, some 1949 LEAF's, 1949 BOWMAN stars and 1952 TOPP's.
Enough said, here are the highlights of my BB card purchases on that 1st visit to the Willow Grove Show. I'm happy to say that these cards are still in my collection.


This is my very first T206 (cost me $20)

.





1949 LEAF Stan Musial rare light blue variation (paid $25)........and, 1949 BOWMAN Paige (which I traded two 1952 TOPPS Hi #s for)

. . . .




1952 TOPPS Billy Martin's rookie card (paid $15)






Look forward to reading your stories.



TED Z
.

[jggames]

Mine wasn’t at a card show, I hope that’s ok. I’m from the middle of nowhere Kansas. We didn’t have many shows to go to but somehow at about 12 years old I got on the Fritsch catalog mailing list. I can still picture what I think that black and white newspaper print cover looked like, because it’s the only reason I knew T206s were special. There was a Doyle, a Magie, a Plank and a Wagner. Inside, the prices for a couple of those cards were in ranges I knew my piggy bank couldn’t hold.

There must have been an advertisement for an auction house because within a year I was on the phone during visits to my grandparents house bidding on cards. I never won a T206.

Fast forward a couple years and we’re about to take a roadtrip to Philadelphia to visit family. I was 14 and checked out a Pennsylvania yellowpages from the library and wrote down every card shop that had big advertisements around philly. This was 1987 so there were a few. I mowed and collected cans for 3 weeks trying to make money for the trip. On the way we stopped at one shop in Lancaster, I’ll never forget it because every once in a while I’ll have a dream about thumbing through raw T206s there.

I bought these 3 cards and even though they’re Piedmont and Sweet Cap 350s, they’re a permanent part of the (mostly) off-back monster binder I just started building last year...my first major purchases since 1987.

[tedzan]

Hi Jason

Any means of acquiring the first T206 cards for your collection goes. I didn't mean to limit this topic only to BB card Show acquisitions.

And, your's is a great story. Brought back 1980's memories of Larry Fritsch.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
.

[steve B]

I moved to Arlington Ma in 1977, and being closer to the big city (I was from small towns, lots of land but under 10K people) I figured there might be someplace that sold old baseball cards. How little I knew that there were hardly any shops anywhere....
But there was one in town!
started hanging out there, and really liked the T206s, but wasn't really ready to spring a whole 1.50 for a decent one.
One day the guy running the shop said he had something for me. A T206! and only 20 cents! who cared if it didn't have one of the pastel scenery backgrounds? Or that it had creases so bad it was nearly torn in half?
It was Mine! They even let me use some scotch invisible tape to make sure it made it home in one piece.

I'd post the scan, but ….. maybe later when I don't have to hunt through my computer for it.

The guys at Halls would occasionally save stuff for me, especially nearly unsaleable items that might encourage me to collect more... My P-2 is even worse, but was free...
A good investment on their part.

[tedzan]

Steve....Mike....Brian

Some very interesting stories, guys. Thanks for posting them.


Hey Mike

We may have met back then, I used to set-up at shows in the Allentown area.


TED Z
.

[Rhotchkiss]

I don't remember the specific show (some show in Northern Virginia), and I am not sure the year (probably around 1986), but my first T206 was a Bresnahan Batting, and I am pretty sure it was a Piedmont (not sure the series). I loved it. It was so small and old and I thought it was very special. Whenever I "traded" with friends -- and we did that all the time -- everyone wanted my tobacco card, but no 1975 Gary Carter, 1983 Boggs or 1984 Donruss Mattingly could pry Roger from me. I don't think i knew at the time that he was a Hall of Famer.

A few years later I picked up a Cy Young with Glove, which then became my all-time favorite card. Each time I got back into collecting (this being my 3rd time), Cy Young with Glove with an early must purchase.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don't remember the specific show (some show in Northern Virginia), and I am not sure the year (probably around 1986), but my first T206 was a Bresnahan Batting, and I am pretty sure it was a Piedmont (not sure the series). I loved it. It was so small and old and I thought it was very special. Whenever I "traded" with friends -- and we did that all the time -- everyone wanted my tobacco card, but no 1975 Gary Carter, 1983 Boggs or 1984 Donruss Mattingly could pry Roger from me. I don't think i knew at the time that he was a Hall of Famer.

A few years later I picked up a Cy Young with Glove, which then became my all-time favorite card. Each time I got back into collecting (this being my 3rd time), Cy Young with Glove with an early must purchase.

Hi Ryan

Thanks for telling us your story. And now 34 years later you have a complete 524-card T206 set.... https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=284539

A "MEGA" Congratulations to you.....you are the man !

Take care my friend,

TED Z
.

[MVSNYC]

Ted, very possible! I used to goto shows also at the Whitehall Mall, Palmer Mall, Phillipsburg Mall, Merchant Square Mall, etc...

I think we first met at the old Fort Washington shows, circa early 90’s.

And obviously we have done a few stealth deals in NJ & NYC!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Ted, very possible! I used to goto shows also at the Whitehall Mall, Palmer Mall, Phillipsburg Mall, Merchant Square Mall, etc...

I think we first met at the old Fort Washington shows, circa early 90’s.

And obviously we have done a few stealth deals in NJ & NYC!

Mike

The first Fort Washington (Philly) Shows was in March 1993. I think your recollection is correct when we first met at my booth. We've been wheeling-n-dealing for about 26 years now.

It's amazing how time flies when you're having fun.

Take care my friend.

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Continuing from Post #1004 regarding the Willow Grove Show. My good ole buddy, Dan Paley, was a H.S. classmate of Bob Schmierer who gave us Dealer tables at the Show.
What an experience it was in the early 1980's. I felt like I went from an amateur dealer to a "professional" dealer overnite that first weekend. Anyhow the story I'm getting to
here is the dealer across from my set-up. Some of you old-timers may remember Wayne Miller. Friday afternoon, on his 12-feet of table space, he'd place a large white sheet.
He would arrange 100's of T206 cards on the sheet. A large group of commons on the left (priced at $2 - 4). The stars on the right. You could purchase any one of the 4 Cobb
cards (Vg - Ex) for a mere $15 - 20 each. Typically by Saturday, he had sold all his T206's. Sunday he would replenish his inventory and by the end of the Show he had only a
few left to take home. It was quite a sight to watch Wayne's operation. Needless to say, I acquired a good number of T206 cards from him.


On display here is a Willow Grove Show program from those years. It contained several pages of very worthwhile information (Dealers, Table layout, etc.) regarding the Show.
On the back of this program was an advertisement for the tremendous Seafood Restaurant (only a short walk from the Convention Center). The Boston Sea Party was a very
popular restaurant in the 1970's-1990's. T'was a consistently excellent franchise, as I will attest to, having eaten at this one, in Denver, Carol Stream (IL) and Cherry Hill (NJ).


. .




Gee guys.....I'm sure you have some really interesting T206 stories to tell.....so why not share them with us.


TED Z
.