1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[tim]

Every time I have seen the boxes and cards come up at auction together, whether it be the Sport Star Subjects or the movie star Screen Star Subjects, the cards have been round-cornered. However, I have only seen the boxes and cards come up together approximately four times in the past 15 years, so that is not a huge sample size.

One other thing to consider is that these boxes hold 12 cards each. 4 boxes times 12 cards equals 48 cards which is the number of round-cornered cards. It doesn't make sense for the 24 square-bordered cards to have gone into four different boxes -- boxes labeled as Series 1 through 4.
--Tim

I defer to Ted Zanidakis' opening post and the examples he posted. Take a look at the example he shows as an original "Bond Bread/Homogenized Bread" Jackie Robinson and note the subtle differences in the cropping of the corners and the image between a Bond Bread and a "Sports Star Subject". The first example (with white background) is an exemplar posted by Ted. The second is from the ebay lot. The difference is clear and evident. The Sports Star Subjects Jackie has cropped corners which are much more "square" than the Bond Bread exemplar. Also much more of the "Dodgers" can be seen in the Bond Bread card, even when factoring in the off-set/miscut. These are 100% not the same cards from the same set, regardless of whether a third party grading company mistakenly labels them as such.

[tim]

The round-cornered cards have huge variation when it comes to the cutting of the corners. Both Jackies look good to me and would not look out of place in an SGC or Beckett slab.
--Tim

Originally Posted by tim

The round-cornered cards have huge variation when it come to the cutting of the corners. Both Jackies look good to me and would not look out of place in an SGC or Beckett slab.
--Tim

I'm not saying they can't be slabbed. I'm saying they're not from the same set. Corners are clearly different as is the image. and how much of "Dodgers" can be seen in the first and not the second. Its not even debatable

[tedzan]

Hi Dan

What strikes me the most is not the difference in the form of the corner cuts, but the difference in the pictures of the two JRobby cards you have posted.

There is a noticeable difference in the contrast of the pictures. The bottom card is lacking the B/W contrast typical of an original 1947 BOND BREAD card.

Do you know what the back of the bottom JRobby card looks like ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Dan

What strikes me the most is not the difference in the form of the corner cuts, but the difference in the pictures of the two JRobby cards you have posted.

There is a noticeable difference in the contrast of the pictures. The bottom card is lacking the B/W contrast typical of an original 1947 BOND BREAD card.

Do you know what the back of the bottom JRobby card looks like ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Hi Ted. Thanks for your help and extensive research on these cards. I agree with you on the contrast also, but I wasn't sure if image quality or lighting might have accounted for that. You can see considerably more of Dodgers in the Bond Bread than the Sports Star Subjects. I think when you factor in the difference in corners, what you actually see in the image, and potentially the contrast...it becomes clear and evident that although similar, they are not from the same set.

I do not know what the back of the Robinson looks like but would be interested in seeing it.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Hi Ted. Thanks for your help and extensive research on these cards. I agree with you on the contrast also, but I wasn't sure if image quality or lighting might have accounted for that. You can see considerably more of Dodgers in the Bond Bread than the Sports Star Subjects. I think when you factor in the difference in corners, what you actually see in the image, and potentially the contrast...it becomes clear and evident that although similar, they are not from the same set.

I do not know what the back of the Robinson looks like but would be interested in seeing it.

Hi Dan

I would be very interested in seeing what the backs of both of these Jackie Robinson cards look like ?

As you know, the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards have bright white backs. The re-printed (24 cards) from
the "Festberg find" have toned backs. If the bottom Robinson in your scan has a toned back (as I suspect)
it has been faked to look like an original 1947 BOND BREAD card by someone who rounded it's corners.




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GasHouseGang]

Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis

Well, they can't be both Bond Breads and Sports Star Subjects unless there was a surplus of Bond Breads that were re-released as Sports Star Subjects, which could be a possibility I suppose. My issue, and perhaps misunderstanding, was that Sports Star Subjects had square corners (never rounded) and Bond Bread/Homogenized Bread had cropped/rounded corners (never square). I always assumed grading company error if there was confusion in this regard. Interestingly, I've never seen either versions of these cards labeled as "Sports Star Subjects". Both square and round get labeled as Bond/Homogenized Bread, IMO incorrectly when square cornered.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis

Hi Dave

These are real thing. They compare exactly with my original set of cards, which I collected in 1947. And, I still have.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GasHouseGang]

I thought we should post the pictures from that Ebay listing before they disappear. I already posted a picture above of the back of the first page, so I'm not posting the backs of all the others. I am showing the picture of the back of the boxes.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545.

In response to Posts #213 through #217 about the Sport Star four box set sold on eBay, the pictures of three of the boxes show a small indicia near the opposite edge of the backs from the printed "No. 600." One of those indicias is inverted from the other two. In the picture of the fourth box, the indicia is covered by another part of that box. While the indicia shown in the scans appear to be Chinese or Japanese, they are not. They are merely the product of a low resolution scan of a poorly printed label. From those images, it appears that the indicia might read: "ANPS / 1947©". Can someone provide a clear picture of the indicia or confirm what it says?

Ted, your initial response to Post #213 is not a lapse of memory. You previously indicated that you never had a "Sport Star Subjects" set, a set issued with a different purpose than the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert set. In the more than 60 years from these sets being issued and the start of this thread, many articles, pictures, and inaccurate listings of the cards in these sets and similar ones, have appeared. Most misdescribe the cards and sets as "Bond Bread." Those lists often erroneously included a card that could not have been issued in 1947 for numerous reasons. For example, the player was in a uniform of or identified as being a member of a team he did not join until after 1947. You, like many others, were led to believe what others thought was the year of issue of the "Sport Sar Subjects" set based on misinformation about it. There is no question about your memory of receiving cards inserted into Bond Bread packages. We are fortunate, you have kept alive the fervor of all of those who collected them back then. We are also quite fortunate that you have consistently attempted to correct the "industry" portion of the card collecting hobby to protect collectors from their abuses.

The poor guy who had built a collection of the 12 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson giveaways suffered a paper loss in value when many of those cards turned out not to be rookie cards, but rather issued in 1948 and 1949. All of those cards are still more scarce than the bread package insert cards. With the "Sport Star Subjects" set being dated to 1947, that means it contains many cards that were previously unrecognized as "rookie" cards, including a Jackie Robinson one.

In a future post in this thread, I will explain why the rounded corners of some of the cards in the "Sport Star Subjects" appear to be cut the same as those on some of the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert cards. I will also explain why some of the cards in Bond Bread insert set have different cut rounded corners than cards of the same player in that same Bond Bread insert card set. Likewise, the "Sport Star Subjects" set has corner variations. That, and explaining the pictures and printing is taking time to put together, but it will be posted.

Thanks, Mike