Memorabilia vs Cards and trends...

[Huysmans]

To gauge the comparison between memorabilia and card sales/values, you have to first a) contemplate what type of "memorabilia" you're considering - game-used items will of course always maintain higher values compared to "generic" memorabilia, and b) recognize cards as simply what they are - pieces of cardboard that are an industry onto themselves.

Those stating that memorabilia prices traditionally trend closely with cards are with all due respect, completely wrong. While game-used items, just like vintage cards, continue to rise in value, and are currently now reaching appropriate value in the market, generic memorabilia values are arbitrary, with numerous examples of items actually selling for less now than 10 and even 20 years ago. Many memorabilia item values are cyclical, with some areas burgeoning (as Scott mentioned with ticket collecting), while others are extremely lagging (19th century items such as Heubach figurines, figural napkin rings, ceramic mugs/plates, etc have monotone values and have not risen over time).

Also, as mentioned previously, card collecting is an industry onto itself. There are numerous collectors who just love cards and card collecting and have very little to no reverence for baseball or sports in general, including any "memorabilia", game-used or otherwise. This is how as Mark stated, we have a hobby where generic pieces of cardboard that just happen to have a player's image sell for more than any item that player actually used. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE cards, but this is the only way to rationalize their exorbitant values compared to actual historical memorabilia items.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

To gauge the comparison between memorabilia and card sales/values, you have to first a) contemplate what type of "memorabilia" you're considering - game-used items will of course always maintain higher values compared to "generic" memorabilia, and b) recognize cards as simply what they are - pieces of cardboard that are an industry onto themselves.

Those stating that memorabilia prices traditionally trend closely with cards are with all due respect, completely wrong. While game-used items, just like vintage cards, continue to rise in value, and are currently now reaching appropriate value in the market, generic memorabilia values are arbitrary, with numerous examples of items actually selling for less now than 10 and even 20 years ago. Many memorabilia item values are cyclical, with some areas burgeoning (as Scott mentioned with ticket collecting), while others are extremely lagging (19th century items such as Heubach figurines, figural napkin rings, ceramic mugs/plates, etc have monotone values and have not risen over time).

Also, as mentioned previously, card collecting is an industry onto itself. There are numerous collectors who just love cards and card collecting and have very little to no reverence for baseball or sports in general, including any "memorabilia", game-used or otherwise. This is how as Mark stated, we have a hobby where generic pieces of cardboard that just happen to have a player's image sell for more than any item that player actually used. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE cards, but this is the only way to rationalize their exorbitant values compared to actual historical memorabilia items.

Although I feel a bit silly even pursuing this matter, which is something like arguing the number of angels on the head of a pin, with all due respect, most of what you just said is ridiculous. I will certainly agree that the game-used area generates the really big numbers like the best cards, but the original proposition specified only "rare and unique" memorabilia trends vs. card trends. Awards do pretty well, too, should they be in a separate category, also? But your main point, that generic memorabilia hasn't gone anywhere while cards were rising in value must have taken place in a different universe than the one I have lived in. I'm not a 19th century collector, but even those items you mentioned, do they really go for what they did 35 or 40 years ago when cards started to take off? And please cite some of the other "numerous examples of items that sell for less than they did 20 years ago." Everything I can think of in the memorabilia realm I've collected and dealt in since then now sells for multiples--in some areas many multiples--of what it did back then. Photos? Ad pieces? Pennants? Pins? Tickets? Player notebooks? How do you think Negro League stuff has done compared to cards, percentage-wise, over that period? I'll give you bobbin head dolls--not that they're not still in great demand, I just think it turned out everyone had a box of them in the closet. Of course, cards are the 800-pound gorilla in the hobby, and why shouldn't they be? There were billions printed, they were every kid's first collecting passion, and they lend themselves to formal organization, cataloguing, and grading like the other gigantic collecting arenas of stamps and coins. Autographs would come second for many of the same reasons. But memorabilia some kind of neglected stepchild compared to those? No way, it's huge in its own right, and growing in popularity, just about every area of it. In my opinion, it will continue to hold up with those others just fine.

[TaxMechanick]

I agree with the point Brent made:
Excerpt:
Many memorabilia item values are cyclical, with some areas burgeoning (as Scott mentioned with ticket collecting), while others are extremely lagging (19th century items such as Heubach figurines, figural napkin rings, ceramic mugs/plates, etc have monotone values and have not risen over time).

This is the point I previously made. These are exactly the kind of items I was referring to, and including, i.e. sheet music; cigar labels, boxes and artwork; (not all, but many) pinbacks, etc.

Please show me where these items have gone up over the last 20 years.... monotone values is probably being conservative, as most of these items have gone down in prices realized, and in some cases significantly down...

The point made by others applies here... Memorabilia is a general term, which must be narrowed and more specified in comparing to card values... yes, in comparing a positive trend on items as game used items, autographs, tickets, etc. No, in comparing any sort of positive trend on certain areas of display memorabilia, i.e. 19th century & turn-century material.

I'm really not that upset; I'm just pointing out the reality, as this monotone or perhaps negative valuation trend on 19th century display material has provided me and others who appreciate this kind of stuff with a great buying opportunity.

With note to above, one may come back with 19th century "card" material "in general" (except for the best of the best) has not kept up with "cards" as a general population. This is true, but I believe this memorabilia area on items as discussed above have fared even worst.

To all, please stay safe and well.

Best,
Glenn Mechanick

[Hankphenom]

I'm not upset, either, I just don't see it. You come up with a few areas that supposedly are flat: Heulbach figurines, "boxes and artwork" (?), cigar labels, sheet music--not exactly prolific areas of the hobby, I would submit--and ignore the hundreds of other categories that have risen considerably in value. How about photos and Negro League, to name just two very large subsets of memorabilia, how have they done in the last 20 years? As for pinbacks, just like cards the great ones have jumped while the common and mundane haven't. What's a nice Cobb P1 going for these days! But that's it for me here, I'd rather focus on the positive: it's a great hobby, all areas have prospered, lots of new collectors coming in all the time--remember the great collapse that was going to take place when baby boomers got old and younger folk weren't going to give a shit about Mickey Mantle? Collect what you like, and don't let anyone tell you that stuff is somehow not up to snuff with cards or anything else--if it excites you, that's all that matters.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by TaxMechanick

I agree with the point Brent made:
Excerpt:
Many memorabilia item values are cyclical, with some areas burgeoning (as Scott mentioned with ticket collecting), while others are extremely lagging (19th century items such as Heubach figurines, figural napkin rings, ceramic mugs/plates, etc have monotone values and have not risen over time).

This is the point I previously made. These are exactly the kind of items I was referring to, and including, i.e. sheet music; cigar labels, boxes and artwork; (not all, but many) pinbacks, etc.

Please show me where these items have gone up over the last 20 years.... monotone values is probably being conservative, as most of these items have gone down in prices realized, and in some cases significantly down...

The point made by others applies here... Memorabilia is a general term, which must be narrowed and more specified in comparing to card values... yes, in comparing a positive trend on items as game used items, autographs, tickets, etc. No, in comparing any sort of positive trend on certain areas of display memorabilia, i.e. 19th century & turn-century material.

I'm really not that upset; I'm just pointing out the reality, as this monotone or perhaps negative valuation trend on 19th century display material has provided me and others who appreciate this kind of stuff with a great buying opportunity.

With note to above, one may come back with 19th century "card" material "in general" (except for the best of the best) has not kept up with "cards" as a general population. This is true, but I believe this memorabilia area on items as discussed above have fared even worst.

To all, please stay safe and well.

Best,
Glenn Mechanick

Well said Glenn

This has allowed me as well to buy items that I couldn't afford previously.
And yes some areas of collecting are now getting their due like others have mentioned... but it's just that... they're NOW getting their due. I don't think literally any of these areas of memorabilia have kept pace with cards over time as the OP asked.