Production Estimates / Print Run Archive

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by homerunderby

The number cited in 1993 for the Finest Refractors are 241 each, which came 1:9 packs if I remember correctly.

IIRC the Finest Refractors were 1:24 (one per box) 1:9 would have increased the print run significantly

Rich

[insidethewrapper]

Ref: 1993 Topps Finest . Here's the numbers: 4,000 ( 12 box ) cases were produced = 48,000 boxes . These were 18ct boxes. Packs contained 6 cards ( five cards + one of the All-Star Cards ( # 84-116)
Odds of refractors were :1:9 packs or 2 per box or a total of 96,000 refractors /199 cards in the set = 482 each . Not sure why or where the 241 has been listed for years, the numbers indicate double that amonut at 482.

Total : 864,000 packs= 4,320,00 cards ( 26,024 of 166 of the cards in the set, and 26,182 of the 33 All-Star Cards (#84-116). About equal. Subtract the 482 each for refractors and you get about 25,500 of each.

5" x 7" Jumbo Cards ( 1 per box) = 48,000 Total. Only issued for the 33 card
All-Star cards. But one of 6 was with Special Foil. Therefore 40,000 were regular foil and 8,000 were Special enhanced Foil. Therefore 40,000/33 =1212 of each regular foil All-Star Jumbo and 8,000/33 = 242 of the Jumbo Special Enhanced Foil cards. NOTE: Maybe this is where that 241 number came up. It was with the Jumbo Refractors not the regular card Refractors. Are jumbo Refractors graded ??

[JUrsaner]

Appreciate all the replies!

Haven't been able to focus on this for a little bit, but just added/updated a whole bunch of sets to the list. If anyone sees any sets where they can add info - don't be nervous to jump in. If anyone has sets you'd like to see added (for instance just added some of the early Upper Deck and Zenith) feel free to say that as well. Next step is hoping to add a bunch of misc. oddball sets

Kept the 1993 Finest Refractor at /241 for now, but have noticed the issue with that one as a non-numbered set for a long time. I'll revisit it later

[West]

Originally Posted by JUrsaner

Appreciate all the replies!

Haven't been able to focus on this for a little bit, but just added/updated a whole bunch of sets to the list. If anyone sees any sets where they can add info - don't be nervous to jump in. If anyone has sets you'd like to see added (for instance just added some of the early Upper Deck and Zenith) feel free to say that as well. Next step is hoping to add a bunch of misc. oddball sets

Kept the 1993 Finest Refractor at /241 for now, but have noticed the issue with that one as a non-numbered set for a long time. I'll revisit it later

Some detective work from Net54 member Zach Wheat regarding 1991 Topps and Desert Shield -

"The Feb 4, 1991 issue of The Pittsburgh Gazette indicates that "...the Topps cards were issued 2 Months prior..." (so Dec 1990) and that Topps had actually planned the shipment before the war (ie Desert Storm)
began. Timing dictated that Operation Desert Shield was over almost as soon as the cards arrived. In an article in the Myrtle Beach Air Star News, Topps spokesman Timm Boyle again mentions that approximately 5,400,00 cards were produced and that the entire allotment meant for the Air Force was returned to the base at Myrtle Beach unopened. This shipment accounted for approx. 1,500,000 cards. Boyle also mentioned that the production run was approx. 6,800 for each player (my math) or approx. 1/1,000th that of normal production."


If those quoted numbers are accurate, 5.4 million cards*1000 = total press run for 1991 Topps of 5.4 billion cards. 5.4 million / 792 = 6.8 million/card in 1991.

That seems plausible to me. We have found statements from Topps representatives in the early 1990s that were possibly exaggerations or outright falsehood. When they were engaged in a lawsuit concerning a George Bush card that made its way into hobby circulation, Topps claimed that all 1990 cards were printed at Duryea when we have evidence that they were subcontracted out to a plant in Rhode Island. It may seem like semantics but I wouldn't put it past them to underestimate total press run so as to make their cards look (a little) more scarce.

[JUrsaner]

Originally Posted by West

Some detective work from Net54 member Zach Wheat regarding 1991 Topps and Desert Shield -

"The Feb 4, 1991 issue of The Pittsburgh Gazette indicates that "...the Topps cards were issued 2 Months prior..." (so Dec 1990) and that Topps had actually planned the shipment before the war (ie Desert Storm)
began. Timing dictated that Operation Desert Shield was over almost as soon as the cards arrived. In an article in the Myrtle Beach Air Star News, Topps spokesman Timm Boyle again mentions that approximately 5,400,00 cards were produced and that the entire allotment meant for the Air Force was returned to the base at Myrtle Beach unopened. This shipment accounted for approx. 1,500,000 cards. Boyle also mentioned that the production run was approx. 6,800 for each player (my math) or approx. 1/1,000th that of normal production."


If those quoted numbers are accurate, 5.4 million cards*1000 = total press run for 1991 Topps of 5.4 billion cards. 5.4 million / 792 = 6.8 million/card in 1991.

That seems plausible to me. We have found statements from Topps representatives in the early 1990s that were possibly exaggerations or outright falsehood. When they were engaged in a lawsuit concerning a George Bush card that made its way into hobby circulation, Topps claimed that all 1990 cards were printed at Duryea when we have evidence that they were subcontracted out to a plant in Rhode Island. It may seem like semantics but I wouldn't put it past them to underestimate total press run so as to make their cards look (a little) more scarce.

Great find! I bumped some of the estimates up for Topps during the junkwax years, although not quite to the 4-5m+ level yet. Going to look into it some more

[JUrsaner]

Originally Posted by JUrsaner

Appreciate all the replies!

Haven't been able to focus on this for a little bit, but just added/updated a whole bunch of sets to the list. If anyone sees any sets where they can add info - don't be nervous to jump in. If anyone has sets you'd like to see added (for instance just added some of the early Upper Deck and Zenith) feel free to say that as well. Next step is hoping to add a bunch of misc. oddball sets

Kept the 1993 Finest Refractor at /241 for now, but have noticed the issue with that one as a non-numbered set for a long time. I'll revisit it later

Added another round of sets to the list.

A bunch of Topps oddball stuff including all the Topps Gallery of Champions sets & related Bronze/Pewter Dealer Premiums. Fascinating to see how these were listed/merged in the old SCD since it was its own 12-card set, a pewter premium related to purchases of Topps Tiffany (?) cases, and a Bronze premium related to sales of Topps Traded (?) cases. I know there a bunch of former dealers on here... would be interested to hear if anyone still collects these? Or even just the sales tiers needed to qualify for the premiums in order to estimate production numbers?

I also added some of the early Stadium Club years and a bookmark for each of the artists in the Topps 2020 Project, which I'm sure there are some people paying attention.

Added various "chase cards" from the 90s like Upper Deck Heroes and some misc. manufacturers like Action Packed

Hope everyone had a great MDW. Any input on production numbers or just any thoughts on how to improve the list and/or make it more useful are appreciated