T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[steve B]

Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened.

It's also possible that some had been shipped to the cigarette factory for packaging and that a distributor who serviced the Long Island area just happened to have their order filled from packs that had already been packed with the Wagner before it was pulled.

I know I took home a few things from the place I worked. Flourescent orange sticker material trimmed from the sheet of some sticker we printed. A "Danger active class 4 laser range" sign. Some maps of a sewage and drainage system and an airbase.. Interesting stuff. If we had done cards of any kind I would have asked for whatever I could get, and they probably would have let me have most of the production materials as long as the client didn't want them. The only stuff that got saved was the masks an color separations in case of a reorder.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened.

It's also possible that some had been shipped to the cigarette factory for packaging and that a distributor who serviced the Long Island area just happened to have their order filled from packs that had already been packed with the Wagner before it was pulled.

I know I took home a few things from the place I worked. Flourescent orange sticker material trimmed from the sheet of some sticker we printed. A "Danger active class 4 laser range" sign. Some maps of a sewage and drainage system and an airbase.. Interesting stuff. If we had done cards of any kind I would have asked for whatever I could get, and they probably would have let me have most of the production materials as long as the client didn't want them. The only stuff that got saved was the masks an color separations in case of a reorder.

Hi Steve
I appreciate your response....."Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened."

Yes most of us take home "goodies" from our work places. I used to take home Electronic power units, Transistors, and a Magnetron (transmitter unit of a 10-Gigahertz Radar set).

Your 2nd paragraph is not really possible in this situation. The Wagner (Plank, etc.) are PIEDMONT Factory #25 cards that were shipped to the Richmond, Virginia ATC factory #25.
PIEDMONT F#25 cards were inserted in cigarette packs that were marketed in the Southern states & Pennsylvania.
Factory #30 cards (LENOX, SWEET CAP, TOLSTOI, UZIT) were marketed in New York, New Jersey and New England.
Any way, that's my understanding how ATC distributed their various brands.

Take care, Steve


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Steve B

When you worked in a Print shop, did you guys trash all mis-prints, errors, etc....or, take some with you ?

I had a part-time job in a Print shop during my High School days. Being the "pack-rat" that I am, I would
take home some of the printing rejects. At that age, I was really fascinated by the printing business.


TED Z
.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Steve B

When you worked in a Print shop, did you guys trash all mis-prints, errors, etc....or, take some with you ?

I had a part-time job in a Print shop during my High School days. Being the "pack-rat" that I am, I would
take home some of the printing rejects. At that age, I was really fascinated by the printing business.


TED Z
.

It was also my HS job, part time during school, and full time in the summer. The place cross trained us, and most of the full time guys were able to handle other jobs in the place. Some had started as sweepers.
I eventually worked a bit of time in every department except the front office. I also didn't get to run the paper cutter, but was around them every day.


The other guys as far as I know didn't take any misprints home. A lot of them got turned over and used as make-ready sheets. I took home a few finished things that may have been misprints or may have been just overruns. (Everyone starts printing something like 125 sheets if the order is for 100 ) but no misprints. If they were misprints, the problems were very minor. We were a fairly high quality low production shop. Many jobs were under 10,000 finished pieces.

None of the other guys were at all interested in problems. They knew what caused them, avoided it if possible, and didn't let the bad stuff get delivered.
There was that one time a couple of them made fake concert tickets and sold them to a scalper... I only knew because I found one of the plates when I grabbed it out of the scrap stack to use as a dustpan. But that wasn't defective stuff, just highly irregular.

They were very tolerant of me bringing in a messed up card a couple times and asking " How did this happen?" Although they did think it was weird that I collected cards with printing errors.

If we had printed any sort of cards, or something interesting like that as much of the scrap/plates etc as I could carry/ask for/sneak out would have come home with me.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Steve
I appreciate your response....."Knapp taking a few cards or sheets home is something that could have happened."


Your 2nd paragraph is not really possible in this situation. The Wagner (Plank, etc.) are PIEDMONT Factory #25 cards that were shipped to the Richmond, Virginia ATC factory #25.
PIEDMONT F#25 cards were inserted in cigarette packs that were marketed in the Southern states & Pennsylvania.
Factory #30 cards (LENOX, SWEET CAP, TOLSTOI, UZIT) were marketed in New York, New Jersey and New England.
Any way, that's my understanding how ATC distributed their various brands.

Take care, Steve


TED Z
.

I've never really tried to find out how many of the SC Wagners are factory 30. Just a quick google search found at least two, and a couple SC25s.

The split between factory 30 and 25 and where each was discovered would be really interesting, as the distribution you talk about sounds right.
If there are a lot of 25s coming from long Island or New England, that would be a big point for someone taking sheets or cards home with them.
I think factory 25 must have had some distribution in that area though, when I started being interested, piedmonts were of course common, and made up the bulk of the collections that came in to the local dealer.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

I've never really tried to find out how many of the SC Wagners are factory 30. Just a quick google search found at least two, and a couple SC25s.

The split between factory 30 and 25 and where each was discovered would be really interesting, as the distribution you talk about sounds right.
If there are a lot of 25s coming from long Island or New England, that would be a big point for someone taking sheets or cards home with them.
I think factory 25 must have had some distribution in that area though, when I started being interested, piedmonts were of course common, and made up the bulk of the collections that came in to the local dealer.

Steve

My theory regarding the distribution is based on several original "finds" that I have been fortunate to acquire, and other "finds" that I was told of by collectors/dealers in the country.
Two of my major PIEDMONT (Factory #25) finds were from South Carolina and Georgia. And, a significant SOVEREIGN (Factory #25) find was from Erie, Pennsylvania.

It would be nice to know the Factory (#25 or #30) breakdown of all the known T206 Wagner cards; and, see how that relates to their place of origin.


TED Z
.

[RCMcKenzie]

Ted, here's an article I read that suggests that there are 57 known, and most of them are SC 150/25. I don't know as I've never really studied this card. I've thought of owning a 52 Mantle or a 33 Lajoie, but never thought I'd own a T206 Wagner...Rob

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/c...6-honus-wagner

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Ted, here's an article I read that suggests that there are 57 known, and most of them are SC 150/25. I don't know as I've never really studied this card. I've thought of owning a 52 Mantle or a 33 Lajoie, but never thought I'd own a T206 Wagner...Rob

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/c...6-honus-wagner

Hi Rob

Thanks for the link to that article. However, what is the numerical breakdown between SC 150/25 and SC 150/30 ? His "most of them are SC 150/25" doesn't really tell us this.
I'm not trying to be "difficult"....it's just that I have seen this breakdown regarding the Plank SC 150 cards and if I recall correctly there are a fair number of Factory #30 backs
in that population.
We do know that Wagner and Plank were on the same sheet when the 150 Series cards were printed and issued. Therefore, I would expect a corresponding breakdown with the
Wagner and Plank cards.


TED Z
.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Rob

Thanks for the link to that article. However, what is the numerical breakdown between SC 150/25 and SC 150/30 ? His "most of them are SC 150/25" doesn't really tell us this.
I'm not trying to be "difficult"....it's just that I have seen this breakdown regarding the Plank SC 150 cards and if I recall correctly there are a fair number of Factory #30 backs
in that population.
We do know that Wagner and Plank were on the same sheet when the 150 Series cards were printed and issued. Therefore, I would expect a corresponding breakdown with the
Wagner and Plank cards.


TED Z
.

Which makes another puzzle. If they really were on the same sheet, Plank and Wagner should be roughly equally uncommon. Yet there are about double the number of Planks. (75 to 35 for PSA, and the grade distribution is also different. )

Call me contrary, but I think they were on different sheets, both sheets being subject to some misfortune in having to be pulled from production.
Considering how there are small differences between series, and even occasionally within a series, I suspect there are "commons" with specific identifiers that are just as uncommon as a Wagner or Plank.