Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

I'd love to hear Mark's, Greg's, Jason's, Kyle's, etc. thoughts on why Giants and Dodgers pennants are not all that similar, given the teams' geographical proximity.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'd love to hear Mark's, Greg's, Jason's, Kyle's, etc. thoughts on why Giants and Dodgers pennants are not all that similar, given the teams' geographical proximity.

Not sure. But are they less similar than, say, Phillies and Yankees?

If we focus on (what I think is) Trench ... pre-1958 both had stadium pennants, one pictured below. I will say a full size Polo Grounds pennant is hard to come by - harder than Ebbets. The Giants version of the Emmet Kelly pennant just had a baseball graphic.

After the move, Trench uses the bum in the Coliseum ... one of my very favorites is the “New Home” pennant. The Mullin Giant is moved to the GG Bridge. Not Seals Stadium or Candlestick. Scroll pennants exist for the Dodgers but I think non-existent for the Giants. The Giants have a pennant with scattered names like the ‘63 Yankees. The one stadium pennant I’ve seen (from your collection) with the batter does look a little different from others, as if it was a different maker. Kind of like how the Mets Shea pennants look different. Nice - but different.

As for the other makers ... no idea. I think it’s much weirder that of all teams, only two do not have a stadium pennant. Phillies (why???) and Senators. Giants and Mets do, may or may not be same maker. I think every other team has ‘em.

How about the team picture pennants? Some teams have them with that extra banner that fits in slots. Others don’t. Some teams have no team pic pennant. Have never seen a Giants, Braves, Cubs or Red Sox. (Not like the common style that is.) Same with Mets, except for ‘69 and I think ‘63 that had a picture stapled on.

I think whenever we hold our first “Hey, pennant guys” convention we need as a keynote speaker someone who worked for Trench so he could explain all these mysteries ...

EDIT: Now I see a Giants scroll pennant ... not a traditional scroll though

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'd love to hear Mark's, Greg's, Jason's, Kyle's, etc. thoughts on why Giants and Dodgers pennants are not all that similar, given the teams' geographical proximity.

Rob - I think you are missing something that all Californians know, but I really learned when I moved from NorCal to SoCal over 25 years ago : they are COMPLETELY different places.

Not only are they rivals, but they have different mindsets about just about everything. A simplistic view would be : the north has a "hippy" mindset, but mindset of "the man" took over in the south. With small pockets of exception, of course (like Topanga down here).

When they moved out here, they were SO far away from the other teams, that I assume (but don't actually know) that the standard pennant companies that shared images / styles between teams didn't bother, and instead local companies got the gigs. Do I get half credit for that thought?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'd love to hear Mark's, Greg's, Jason's, Kyle's, etc. thoughts on why Giants and Dodgers pennants are not all that similar, given the teams' geographical proximity.

I know I’m not the guy to answer that question. I’m strictly on to the beauty aka: coolness of pennants. Makers and production are not my thing. I just like buying and selling them. Seems like there’s always been more production info from the NY and Chicago areas and less info from the California area. I did buy some old stock out of Northern CA years ago, but those included those 1958 Giants variations mentioned in the past. That purchase included pennants going from the mid 40’s AAFC all the way to the 70’s. Never got any name of the makers

[Duluth Eskimo]

Although this isn't a press photo, I thought I would throw it out there to date this pennant. This was being sold in one lot all purchased at the same time. Just for info.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'd love to hear Mark's, Greg's, Jason's, Kyle's, etc. thoughts on why Giants and Dodgers pennants are not all that similar, given the teams' geographical proximity.

I'll take a stab at this ... when I think about the late 1950s, early 60s, Trench pretty much dominated the MLB pennant market. That was somewhat true too in the 1940s and early 50s; but, there were still a handful of smaller pennant makers producing limited runs for certain teams within their local market/region. Consequently, there's way more variation in Brooklyn pennants than Los Angeles ones, and I assume that to be true for the NY/SF Giants, too.

Looking strictly at early LA vs. early SF pennants produced by Trench, I'm not sure I've noticed too many differences. Nearly all of the Dodger pennants from that era are stadium pennants, featuring either the Coliseum or Dodger Stadium. Sure, some have a photo incorporated in them; some also have a sash. But Trench basically offered the same for the Giants ... with some discrepancies....

(1) The '62 NL champions photo pennant for the Giants doesn't feature a sash like the '62 (phantom) one Trench made for the Dodgers; or the '63 NL/world champions pennant Trench made the following year. That's probably because Trench anticipated the Dodgers winning the pennant that year; and there wasn't sufficient time to make a Giant version using this style, which would take extra time to produce. (2) Trench also created a logo of sorts just for Giant pennants that they didn't do for the Dodgers: it featured a batter in front of the Golden Gate Bridge, occasionally positioned before a baseball backdrop. Los Angeles doesn't have a landmark like the bridge, so it makes sense that Dodger pennants instead focused on the two arguably more venerable ballparks they occupied. (3) The same Trench artist responsible for the majority of their stadium pennants never produced a stadium pennant for Seals Stadium--not like the one that was produced for the Coliseum and Dodger Stadium. It's a one-color rendering with an empty stadium. It's like nothing Trench made. (Perhaps they borrowed it from a Seals program?)

Honestly, I don't think these discrepancies had anything to do with geography; rather, the concessionaire had more to do with these differences than anything. I'm sure Trench came to them, offered some samples of what they could produce, and each concessionaire made their selections. The Dodgers (Danny Goodman) and Giants (Harry M. Stevens, Inc.) each used different concessionaires during this era, so that to me explains why their merch looked different.

My two cents....

[perezfan]

Great info, Kyle...

And I believe that last sentence about Goodman and Stevens (using different concessionaires) is probably the best explanation for the differences.

On a separate note...

I finally listed some nice pennants on the Memorabilia B/S/T. A few have already sold, but many nice ones are still available. Below are a few examples... feel free to check them out, and thanks for looking!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Domer05

The Dodgers (Danny Goodman) and Giants (Harry M. Stevens, Inc.)

Before anybody asks, I'm not related (that I know of).

And Mark , that 1951 Tigers pennant is cool.

Doug

[ooo-ribay]

Nuthin’ but high quality from perezfan!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Nuthin’ but high quality from perezfan!

No question, Mark is The Godfather of pennants ...

[thetahat]

As for creating a pennant gallery ... I got the Flickr app but it seems like Google Photos might be better. I think I’ll do one team at a time ... is there an audience if I occasionally post links? I’m so bored!!!! This will keep me busy.

[Bumpus Jones]

sign me up!