Negro League Team/Player Identifications

[bcbgcbrcb]

Steve:

Over the weekend, I had a chance to review your suggested identifications, very nice detective work on your part. Standing from left to right, the first player's face is not clear enough to make a positive identification but Chacon is certainly a good possibility. Next to him, Julian Fabelo is a match along with the next player, Joseito Rodriguez being a match as well. Manuel Rigal is also a match next to him. So that's a great start with the first four guys standing on the left. Also, looking at the original image which is quite clear there, the player seated at far right is Oms, I'm 99% sure of it. There is some resemblance to Valentin Dreke but not a match.

When you have some more time, if you are able to identify anyone else, that would be awesome. Also, any thoughts as to the Cuban team name with a "V" in it?

Thanks again for all of your efforts, great job!

Phil

[mannybb24]

Yea no problem Phil, I had a busy weekend so I wasn’t able to get to it but it’s still not my list.

I’m not 100% for certain but the “V” on the chest could stand for “Villa Clara”.

And yes the more and more I look at the guy sitting on the far right it does resemble Oms more than Dreke, maybe that’s more wishful thinking on my end as I’m a big Valentin Dreke guy, just look at my avatar!!! Ha!

But hate to burst your bubble but I don’t think that’s Smokey Joe but more research will be done.
Steve

[bcbgcbrcb]

Sounds good, Steve, thanks. I’ll do some checking on Villa Clara too. Same area as Santa Clara?

[Kenny Cole]

If you assume that the person sitting on the right in the first photo is actually Oms, it is highly unlikely that the person standing behind him is Smokey Joe. To my knowledge, Williams played for Habana in 1911, Fe in 1912-13, and maybe a couple of games for San Francisco in the second half of of the 1915-16 season, although the San Francisco team dropped out of the league pretty early once the second half started. That's it for his Cuban tenure so far as I'm aware.

Oms would have been, at best, 21 by the second half of 1916 and at least from 1910 to 1914 he is reported to have been playing semi-pro, sugarmill and sandlot ball for Pastora, Dobargans and Santa Clara. From 1915 to roughly 1920, he played mostly for La Tosca, although in 1917 he played for the Cuban Stars East in New York some. He didn't start playing in the Cuban Professional leagues until 1922, so there is no overlap between he and Williams. I suppose, however, this photo could have been of a sugarmill team since those teams were pretty notorious for bringing ringers.

[mannybb24]

Villa Clara is a Province of Cuba and Santa Clara is a city located in the Province.

Good stuff Kenny, it’s what I figured from the get-go that Smokey was done playing in Cuba by 1916 and Oms would’ve been pretty young along with the rest of this team that I can make out.
The size of the ballplayer is what sticks out but the shadowy face does not compare to the great Smokey Joe Williams.

By the way a quick glance at the pic again and I see a young Cheo Ramos next to Oms.

Steve

[bcbgcbrcb]

Great info, Kenny, thanks.

Steve:

Rather than me researching dates, do you know about the earliest time that would make sense for each of the guys you mentioned to be playing on a professional caliber team? Maybe that’s a good way to start narrowing down the possible year of the photo? We know it should not extend later than 1924.

[Kenny Cole]

Rigal was born in 1901 or 1902 and began playing pro ball in 1922 for the Cuban Stars West. He is the youngest of the players mentioned by Steve, with Chacon being the oldest.

I looked at Jorge Figueredo's Cuban Baseball book which has a year-by-year statistical history of the teams and players from 1878-1961, and I found no mention of a professional Cuban baseball team that ever started with a V. I guess people can draw their own conclusions regarding what that might mean.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks, Kenny. So it sounds like early 1920’s is more likely than 1910’s.

I just posted a pic of the back of the postcard up in the original post along with a similar time period photo of Smokey Joe Williams. The original image of the big guy on the postcard is so-so, not very clear but not completely unidentifiable.

Do we know of any winter ball seasons from Williams during the 1920’s anywhere?