More Deserving of the HOF? Travis Jackson or Sherry Magee

[CMIZ5290]

Neither one IMO.... Bill Dahlen would deserve a nod over both of these players....

[bmcnutt]

Dahlen is another solid example. No disrepect, but look at Phil Rizzuto. He was a fantastic defensive player, but his career stats do not spell "Hall of Fame". He only played 13 seasons. And he played in an era where popularity and being on a 7x World Series New York Yankees team got him elected. The Veterans Committee had to put him in.

There are a lot more. Dave Bancroft. Magee & Dahlen's numbers are much better than Bancroft.

Sherry Magee is getting the shaft.

[bmcnutt]

162 Game Career Averages.

Bill Dahlen

599 AB 105 Runs 163 Hits 27 Doubles 11 Triples 6 HR 82 RBI 36 SB .272 BA

Sherry Magee

578 AB 86 Runs 168 Hits 33 Doubles 13 Triples 6 HR 91 RBI 34 SB .291 BA

It's close. I guess it comes down to personal preference. Dahlen's WAR was 75.3, placing him tied with Sam Crawford all-time at #77. In any regard, both players belong in Cooperstown.

[999Tony]

Magee was elected to the hall of merit in its year 1926 election back in 2004. Back then HOM was still relying a lot on win shares instead of more advanced stats. Magee sailed in pretty easily.

(Hall of merit at baseball think factory — attempted sabermetric approach to picking best all time players— some great discussions over the years—can still read most of them.). Most of the voters very knowledgeable. I still go back to the site to look at old discussions of various players when seeking info.

[RCMcKenzie]

I don't believe the baseball hall of fame should be exclusive like Augusta National. I'd like to see them follow the basketball hall of fame model, where notables like Rudy T. get enshrined. Magee and Jackson are both worthy to me. It's a museum to learn about the history of the game, not a golf club. Rob

[bmcnutt]

Well, if it's a "museum to learn about the history of the game, not a golf club", then why call it the National Baseball Hall of Fame? Why not just call it the National Baseball Museum?

[Tyruscobb]

Sometimes numbers mean something, and sometimes they do not. I’m not saying he deserves a Cooperstown plaque, but I’ve always it boggling that the player with the fourth highest all-time career batting average is not a Hall of Famer. Lefty O’Doul played 11 seasons and has a .349 career average.

[nat]

There are many players who were better than Jackson who are not in the hall. And the percentage of hall of famers who were worse than Jackson is pretty low. That Magee was better than Jackson is not a good argument that Magee deserves enshrinement, because Jackson was a mistake.

A better argument would be to look at the number of players who were better than Magee who are not in, and the percentage of players who were worse than Magee who are in. That will give you an idea about how he stands up to the standards that the hall has set for itself. (Standards that, to reiterate, Jackson does poorly against.)

Here are some players who are similar to Magee in offensive production, career length, and position (1B or corner outfield, ie, not a defense-first position): Will Clark, Jack Clark, Carlos Delgado, Reggie Smith. (Also Bill Terry, but Magee didn't post any .400 batting averages.) These guys were all really good ball players, but also pretty much the guys who you'd think of as pulling up "just short" of hall-standards. Smith was probably the best of them, but he's also the one that spent some time in center field.

As for why some guys get support whereas others don't, I recommend Bill James' book "The Politics of Glory". (The paperback version was retitled "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame".) Hall of fame voting has been an irrational mess pretty much since the beginning, and the result is a class of hall of famers that doesn't really make much sense.