Cards that CAN and CANNOT be soaked?!

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Well, actually I would cover the car in water to clean it quite often. I mean, that's basically the definition of washing a car, right? If you were to purchase the car in my analogy, would you expect that the seller should disclose every time the car was washed in the past 60 years? Do you consider that "compromising" the car?

That's where the analogy falls apart to a certain degree. Because a car is sheet metal, covered in paint and layers of clear coat to protect against the elements, "cleaning it" is really not as intrusive as it would be if the body was made out of a substance that was not water resistant.

I get what you are saying though, but I still see it as a level of compromise when you go through the post and see how many cards cannot be soaked. They are made from paper, pressed pulp that when gets wet, can begin to degrade even if the slightest bit.

In my book, that is something that should be disclosed if the intent is to improve the appearance and value of the card. Similar to the way that comic books, when restored and graded have a different designation/value. It is done in fine arts all the time, during the restoration/cleaning processes on old pieces of art in the name of preservation. So I don't have a problem with the practice as much as I do with the venom thrown at other practices, when soaking in my book, is another tool of improving/altering cards and profiting from the result. Again, all my opinion, just wanted to hear from other folks so I do appreciate you chiming in!

[marcdelpercio]

Originally Posted by yanks87

That's where the analogy falls apart to a certain degree. Because a car is sheet metal, covered in paint and layers of clear coat to protect against the elements, "cleaning it" is really not as intrusive as it would be if the body was made out of a substance that was not water resistant.

That's a fair point, but I feel that the purpose of this thread is to determine what cards can be soaked WITHOUT intrusively degrading the composition. When I soak a card, my goal is to simply remove things that HAVE degraded it and were not a part of the card to begin with. That is where I draw the line with alterations. To add color or trim away a part of the card that was initially there is fundamentally changing the original integrity of the card. Soaking dirt or added paper off of it is not. It is possible pretty close to 100% of the time with enough scrutiny and technology to detect trimming/rebuilding/recoloring. It is not possible at all to detect a card that has been soaked in water. And the reason for that is because that card has NOT been altered from its original state.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

That's a fair point, but I feel that the purpose of this thread is to determine what cards can be soaked WITHOUT intrusively degrading the composition. When I soak a card, my goal is to simply remove things that HAVE degraded it and were not a part of the card to begin with. That is where I draw the line with alterations. To add color or trim away a part of the card that was initially there is fundamentally changing the original integrity of the card. Soaking dirt or added paper off of it is not. It is possible pretty close to 100% of the time with enough scrutiny and technology to detect trimming/rebuilding/recoloring. It is not possible at all to detect a card that has been soaked in water. And the reason for that is because that card has NOT been altered from its original state.

True, but I did see a lot of W551's recently that were very obviously soaked as the inks bled all over the place, it was a mess of blue and red, great in modern art, not so good in this case. They were slabbed and sold. So I will agree, soaking is the one of the least of the nefarious things that can be done to cards, if it is nondestructive, in order to restore or preserve the original card, but in my book (very thin with a lot of pictures), it is still "meddling."

[Leon]

I think going with what the hobby deems acceptable (most think soaking in water is ok) is the best way to go. I do think soaking can change composition a little bit because the few times I have done it I could tell it was done afterwards. The cards with white borders look a tiny bit less white to me. Also, I have seen cards change a shade of color too.

Originally Posted by yanks87

True, but I did see a lot of W551's recently that were very obviously soaked as the inks bled all over the place, it was a mess of blue and red, great in modern art, not so good in this case. They were slabbed and sold. So I will agree, soaking is the one of the least of the nefarious things that can be done to cards, if it is nondestructive, in order to restore or preserve the original card, but in my book (very thin with a lot of pictures), it is still "meddling."

[ahumes13]

Has anyone ever tried to soak an E98? I understand the general concern with the color/sheen/fragility of the cards, but curious if anyone has ever tried?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ahumes13

Has anyone ever tried to soak an E98? I understand the general concern with the color/sheen/fragility of the cards, but curious if anyone has ever tried?

i wouldnt think there'd be any problem soaking an e98...they're sturdy.

[ahumes13]

I think the (potential) issue is the color on the front can flake off generally or when encased, etc., am curious if it survives a soak.