PSA 10's

[Johnny630]

Grades have nothing to do with the card but everything to do with whom submits the card. Bottom line

[glynparson]

never
Mind you aren’t worth the time to fight with.

[forceplay sport]

my 2 cents - if you spend thousands with PSA they will throw you a few bones, otherwise , good luck !!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by forceplay sport

my 2 cents - if you spend thousands with PSA they will throw you a few bones, otherwise , good luck !!

Agree with this. The way to play the PSA game is to go big.The system is very clearly two tiered.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I debated hopping into this discussion. I am far from a big fish, and to my regret My auction switched from SGC to PSA right before the scandal hit. Been debating switching back. But I am FAR from a heavy hitter. If I grade 1000 cards a year I'd be surprised. I grade every card myself before it is sent in. I average less than half a grade off over all. there are a couple swings in there, but they work both ways. I had an Alcindor rookie I graded 4.5 and it got a 6, I just had a 1956 FB checklist I graded a 6 and it got a 3 (actually still trying to figure that one out, been over the card with a loupe several times)

Anyway my point is there are PLENTY of things to be concerned with as regards PSA, and I am not a fan of the heavy hitters getting in person reviews thus making a sham of the anonymity that they at least imply the process has, but I don't think they're punishing small fry submitters with bad grades. Some people posit that they do it to encourage resubmissions, but those resubmissions would have to offset the defection of people who get sick of undergrades to other companies. Maybe I have the metrics of that equation wrong but I'd have to be damn sure of my plan if it included pissing off a large quantity of submitters.

[milkit1]

Has anyone on here ever submitted a pre war card to PSA and got back a 10? Would love to hear about that.

[rdwyer]

Everyone I talk to where I live, states that PSA has been tougher on all grading. Doesn't matter how much you grade.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by milkit1

Has anyone on here ever submitted a pre war card to PSA and got back a 10? Would love to hear about that.

Never have. Can't imagine it.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't think they're punishing small fry submitters with bad grades. Some people posit that they do it to encourage resubmissions, but those resubmissions would have to offset the defection of people who get sick of undergrades to other companies. Maybe I have the metrics of that equation wrong but I'd have to be damn sure of my plan if it included pissing off a large quantity of submitters.

I think this is true but also not quite on point.

I doubt that PSA ever deliberately punishes small fry. Like you say, they have no incentive to actively piss submitters off.

The real issue is whether they give gifts to big fish.

The biggest opportunity for them to give gifts to favored customers without pissing off less important ones lies entirely with the PSA 10 versus PSA 9 distinction for big value cards. The distinction between these two is so arbitrary that its almost impossible to dispute a call between them. Yet the difference can be worth thousands of dollars to someone who gets a 10 instead of a 9.

In order to maintain the value of that 10, they can't give away too many of them. So they've got a limited number of these gifts to give, and basically complete discretion in deciding when they are going to give them out. Its not hard to figure out how they'll dole them out based on the incentives they have.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

I think this is true but also not quite on point.

I doubt that PSA ever deliberately punishes small fry. Like you say, they have no incentive to actively piss submitters off.

The real issue is whether they give gifts to big fish.

The biggest opportunity for them to give gifts to favored customers without pissing off less important ones lies entirely with the PSA 10 versus PSA 9 distinction for big value cards. The distinction between these two is so arbitrary that its almost impossible to dispute a call between them. Yet the difference can be worth thousands of dollars to someone who gets a 10 instead of a 9.

In order to maintain the value of that 10, they can't give away too many of them. So they've got a limited number of these gifts to give, and basically complete discretion in deciding when they are going to give them out. Its not hard to figure out how they'll dole them out based on the incentives they have.

I don't disagree with you, but I was specifically responding to someone who was saying that small submitters don't get 10's. Do they get them at the same rate as whales? Probably not, but I got 10's on my first submission and have gotten them on cards as old as 1968 and I am no whale, never been to a PSA invitational etc.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

The distinction between these two is so arbitrary that its almost impossible to dispute a call between them. Yet the difference can be worth thousands of dollars to someone who gets a 10 instead of a 9.

And this distinction, in prices realized between a 9 and a 10, despite almost undetectable differences, is what drives much of this bad behavior. The thing is that we, the collecting community, ultimately have complete control of the prices.

Say there is really no perceptible difference between a 9 and a 10, at least not one that can be consistently defended. By giving 10s out at a much lower rate than 9s, PSA manipulates the supply of 10s and and we fall right in the trap of believing that a 10 is worth XX times more than a 9, based on the supply - though there is little/no difference. However, with all the money and egos in the hobby, the precious 10 carries with it the swagger that "I have the best" and people are willing to spend crazy amounts of money for that.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

I think this is true but also not quite on point.

I doubt that PSA ever deliberately punishes small fry. Like you say, they have no incentive to actively piss submitters off.

The real issue is whether they give gifts to big fish.

The biggest opportunity for them to give gifts to favored customers without pissing off less important ones lies entirely with the PSA 10 versus PSA 9 distinction for big value cards. The distinction between these two is so arbitrary that its almost impossible to dispute a call between them. Yet the difference can be worth thousands of dollars to someone who gets a 10 instead of a 9.

In order to maintain the value of that 10, they can't give away too many of them. So they've got a limited number of these gifts to give, and basically complete discretion in deciding when they are going to give them out. Its not hard to figure out how they'll dole them out based on the incentives they have.

Yeap. Probably aren't dinging smaller submitters intentionally BUT if they give lenient grades to volume submitters, in effect, it does hurt the others.