Rip- kobe bryant

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

It sure as Hell didn't take long for the vultures to circle.... The three best players I have ever seen that can score at will.... Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Pete Maravich....There you have it

Kevin, if you were to ask 100 current NBA fans who Pete Maravich was, how many of them do you think would even recognize his name? Beyond simple name recognition, how many would know what he did in the NBA, or how thoroughly he dominated in the NCAA?

One of the reasons I love Net54-one of many-is that there's a real knowledge of, and appreciation for the histories of the games behind the cards. Not everyone that collects vintage and pre-WWII baseball cards loves today's game. And, I can't say I'd blame them if they couldn't get into Major League Baseball as it exists in he year 2020, after multiple strikes, ridiculous player salaries, the scandals (steroids, sign stealing), etc. But these collectors can talk about the golden era at great length.

I'm somewhere in between. I still enjoy today's game quite a bit, but it doesn't resonate with me quite as much as it used to. I'm going to subscribe to MLB Extra Innings for the first time in four years, and see if I can't rediscover the passion for the modern game.

Regardless of the level of affinity our members feel for the games as they're played today, they know the past very well. I can come here and start talking about Maravich, Jerry West, or John Havlicek, and people are going to have rich memories of seeing these guys in person. When I go to a post by the NBA on Facebook, something about the current New York Knicks, for example, and the "die hard, lifelong Knicks fans" don't know who Willis Reed is, I want to shoot myself in the head. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe, Walt Frazier..."oh, I've heard of them."

It's as if the game, and the team didn't exist before Patrick Ewing. So many "fans" just dismiss any era that happened before they were born.

There are precious few places left where I can intelligently discuss the past. Net54 allows me to indulge my love of collectibles and sports history. Leon provides us with the virtual sports bar. It's all of you that make the conversation stimulating.

[the 'stache]

Regarding Kobe, he's simply one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen, and not just in basketball. I remember how good he was at such a young age. It was frightening, really. You saw glimpses of what he'd become even in that first year of 1996-'97. He wasn't playing a lot of minutes, but he did...things...that just made my jaw drop. And 17.6 points per 36 minutes at age 18 is impressive as heck. His explosiveness was absurd. He was so smooth. I think most of us that saw him from the start would say that he exceeded even our wildest expectations.

Remember back when Shaq left the Lakers, how so many chalked his Kobe's rings to Shaq's presence? He won two more without O'Neal. He was great in his own right, and that whole narrative seems downright silly now.

While I can't forget what he was accused of (and I won't talk about it here, as it's inappropriate), I think Kobe genuinely did a lot of good. A hell of a lot. I read about what he did to help the homeless in Los Angeles. The philanthropic foundation he set up with his wife Vanessa. I learned how Kobe would travel back and forth to China to help kids with their education, and encouraged those kids to learn the benefits of teamwork on the court as a metaphor for life. The Kobe Bryant China Fund, and his efforts to promote Chinese culture in America. By all accounts, he was a fantastic father. He mentored countless players coming into the league.

He used helicopters with great frequency as doing so allowed him to spend more time with his girls. That he and his daughter Gianna (and the seven others on board) died en route to one of her basketball games is just...let's just say the universe can sometimes be very cruel.

When he's inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame, I don't think there will be a dry eye in the place, or among those watching from home, myself included.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Regarding Kobe, he's simply one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen, and not just in basketball. I remember how good he was at such a young age. It was frightening, really. You saw glimpses of what he'd become even in that first year of 1996-'97. He wasn't playing a lot of minutes, but he did...things...that just made my jaw drop. And 17.6 points per 36 minutes at age 18 is impressive as heck. His explosiveness was absurd. He was so smooth. I think most of us that saw him from the start would say that he exceeded even our wildest expectations.

Remember back when Shaq left the Lakers, how so many chalked his Kobe's rings to Shaq's presence? He won two more without O'Neal. He was great in his own right, and that whole narrative seems downright silly now.

While I can't forget what he was accused of (and I won't talk about it here, as it's inappropriate), I think Kobe genuinely did a lot of good. A hell of a lot. I read about what he did to help the homeless in Los Angeles. The philanthropic foundation he set up with his wife Vanessa. I learned how Kobe would travel back and forth to China to help kids with their education, and encouraged those kids to learn the benefits of teamwork on the court as a metaphor for life. The Kobe Bryant China Fund, and his efforts to promote Chinese culture in America. By all accounts, he was a fantastic father. He mentored countless players coming into the league.

He used helicopters with great frequency as doing so allowed him to spend more time with his girls. That he and his daughter Gianna (and the seven others on board) died en route to one of her basketball games is just...let's just say the universe can sometimes be very cruel.

When he's inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame, I don't think there will be a dry eye in the place, or among those watching from home, myself included.

I dont think you can can just gloss over what he was accused of in the context of everyone saying he was a great husband...and its a bit of a disservice to the victim that he apologized too especially in this Me too age..

however he did appear to take a lot of of positive steps and was on the way for bigger and better things... basketball wise people forget about the issue of high school to NBA..i think jermaine o'neal also came out that year as well....

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont think you can can just gloss over what he was accused of in the context of everyone saying he was a great husband...and its a bit of a disservice to the victim that he apologized too especially in this Me too age..

however he did appear to take a lot of of positive steps and was on the way for bigger and better things... basketball wise people forget about the issue of high school to NBA..i think jermaine o'neal also came out that year as well....

Who was glossing over what he did? I certainly wasn't. I merely stated that I wasn't going to talk about it here. I don't believe in badmouthing the dead. Everybody knows what he was accused of. This isn't the time or place to drag it up.

And I didn't say he was a great husband. I said he was a great father. Others may have, but please don't include me with them.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Who was glossing over what he did? I certainly wasn't. I merely stated that I wasn't going to talk about it here. I don't believe in badmouthing the dead. Everybody knows what he was accused of. This isn't the time or place to drag it up.

And I didn't say he was a great husband. I said he was a great father. Others may have, but please don't include me with them.

Right, there are many in the media saying he was a great husband. I am not badmouthing , i am correcting the media version. If no one said anything, i wouldnt be bringing up any negative issues.

I do think however, being a great father when you are married and living together with your wife also involves being a good husband which is the example you are setting to your kids as father as well so they are not mutually exclusive..

[samosa4u]

I'm not surprised to see Pistol Pete's name being thrown around a lot now. Both he and Kobe were almost the same age when they passed; they were both amazing players who played as guards, and most importantly, they both loved helping others.

Now I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe here, but he was lucky to have played for an organization that always wants to win.

What would have happened if the Pistol had played for the Lakers? Just think of a backcourt consisting of him and Jerry West - wow! And he would have been passing the ball to guys like Wilt Chamberlain and a young Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Instead, he ended up on crappy teams and now you don't hear about him much.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm not surprised to see Pistol Pete's name being thrown around a lot now. Both he and Kobe were almost the same age when they passed; they were both amazing players who played as guards, and most importantly, they both loved helping others.

Now I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe here, but he was lucky to have played for an organization that always wants to win.

What would have happened if the Pistol had played for the Lakers? Just think of a backcourt consisting of him and Jerry West - wow! And he would have been passing the ball to guys like Wilt Chamberlain and a young Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Instead, he ended up on crappy teams and now you don't hear about him much.

The what would of happened argument to me doesnt hold merit. Having the opportunity and coming through is always going to be higher than someone who never had the opportunity. Its an unknown versus a known. Is what it is, life isnt fair. There have been great players on great teams that dont win...... cant hold someone down for coming through when given the opportunity to the level of someone that 'what would have happened if'

[howard38]

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[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Who was glossing over what he did? I certainly wasn't. I merely stated that I wasn't going to talk about it here. I don't believe in badmouthing the dead. Everybody knows what he was accused of. This isn't the time or place to drag it up.

And I didn't say he was a great husband. I said he was a great father. Others may have, but please don't include me with them.

Well said Bill....Keep in mind though that your are responding to an idiot....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Well said Bill....Keep in mind though that your are responding to an idiot....

He actually is agreeing with me about my point about being a great husband so unsure what you mean..

you have been warned by Leon in the past on responses to my posts....here we go again

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

He actually is agreeing with me about my point about being a great husband so unsure what you mean..

you have been warned by Leon in the past on responses to my posts....here we go again

Leon is the one who gave YOU an infraction for your bullshit on my threads yesterday! Why is that? You have got a mental problem obviously... Should I post the email from Leon this morning you stupid dumbass???? Get a freaking life... LEAVE me alone, dont inquire about my cards, dont email me about anything, Dont PM me about anything....Is that plain enough?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont think you can can just gloss over what he was accused of in the context of everyone saying he was a great husband...and its a bit of a disservice to the victim that he apologized too especially in this Me too age..

however he did appear to take a lot of of positive steps and was on the way for bigger and better things... basketball wise people forget about the issue of high school to NBA..i think jermaine o'neal also came out that year as well....

Leave it to you to bring up something like this during a very tragic event....

[GasHouseGang]

Well, since I can't get anyone else to do it, I'll add a few more of Kobe's cards to keep this a celebration of Kobe. Here are some of his rookie cards.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Well, since I can't get anyone else to do it, I'll add a few more of Kobe's cards to keep this a celebration of Kobe. Here are some of his rookie cards.

Do you own these cards David?

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Do you own these cards David?

Yes. I started collecting the Kobe rookies several years ago.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Leave it to you to bring up something like this during a very tragic event....

leave it to you to make that comment....and lets not pretend your comment on this is not related to a very recent failed deal in which i made you a reasonable offer (i think you will agree to that as you changed the price to within a few percent of my offer for the whole board to see a week later or so) that you turned down and you stated that you would no longer email me in not a nice way......i guess you will still leave comments on all my posts now... i hope thats not how you operate (failed deal equals make negative posts to buyer) I will not get into more specifics on how it went down and we can leave it at that.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

leave it to you to make that comment....and lets not pretend your comment on this is not related to a very recent failed deal in which i made you a reasonable offer (i think you will agree to that as you changed the price to within a few percent of my offer for the whole board to see a week later or so) that you turned down and you stated that you would no longer email me in not a nice way......i guess you will still leave comments on all my posts now... i hope thats not how you operate (failed deal equals make negative posts to buyer) I will not get into more specifics on how it went down and we can leave it at that.

You really are a moron....Let's leave that at that.....This has nothing to do with a deal not completed, just your thoughtless comments on this thread

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You really are a moron....Let's leave that at that.....

pot calling kettle black... .all i can do is respond on the board.(you said not to contact you direct)....plus all i did was make you an offer, and you went nuts...and continue too...

as to kobe..i think the media was thoughtless in reporting and many agree.....they even said that rick fox was on the helicopter at one time... i also think there was a poster here that advised me he never said kobe was a good husband, but many media outlets have said that.....not sure why you would be so negative to my comment.... my issue is not with kobe its the way the media has been reporting the matters.

[PowderedH2O]

Bill, ironic that you should post this today. I am a high school teacher. We just started the new semester less than a week ago, so I am just getting to know the students. In my 4th period class I ended up having a 15 minute discussion with two 16 year old boys that had completed their work. It was on basketball history. They knew all about Maravich, Wilt, Oscar, etc. I was very impressed. Now, do they know that next level of star? I have no idea. I have so many memories, like going to my first NBA game as a kid and watching Bob Love torch the New Orleans Jazz.

I went to Pete's camp as a kid and still have the camp photo with all of us signed by him. He would show us trick shots and it was insane. Just like Kobe's passing, I was just devastated when he died at 40 years old.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by PowderedH2O

I went to Pete's camp as a kid and still have the camp photo with all of us signed by him. He would show us trick shots and it was insane. Just like Kobe's passing, I was just devastated when he died at 40 years old.

Was this at the Kutsher's (Borsch Belt) resort in upstate New York?? Or were there other Pistol Pete camps? My brothers, friends and I went a couple of years in a row and my Dad was one of the (non-NBA player) instructors.

[MULLINS5]

Can't blame people for raising their prices when most are buying low to flip. Those are the worthless losers.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Can't blame people for raising their prices when most are buying low to flip. Those are the worthless losers.

People who buy things low hoping to sell them high are "worthless losers?"

If you had a stock broker who advised you, and his recommendations helped give you a nice return, would you call him a "worthless loser" and fire him?

Or would you be happy when YOU buy low and sell high?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Mark17

People who buy things low hoping to sell them high are "worthless losers?"

If you had a stock broker who advised you, and his recommendations helped give you a nice return, would you call him a "worthless loser" and fire him?

Or would you be happy when YOU buy low and sell high?

Good post, Mark. As a former stockbroker, I would hope not.

After someone like Bryant dies, it's only natural for fans to want a tangible piece their career (especially when they're athletes), be it a jersey he wore, or a card he autographed. That's because human beings are sentimental creatures. Demand goes up. The supply won't increase all that much, unless someone who didn't have their items for sale puts them on Ebay immediately after Bryant's death (darned opportunists!) So, given the increase demand, shouldn't the items available command a premium? You can buy now, and pay more, or, you can wait, and see what happens, knowing you might miss out on the very best items, altogether.

If a seller raises their item's price, and a buyer pays the price they ask, what's the problem? The seller has made a profit. The buyer has what they wanted, at a price they were willing to pay. Nobody held a gun to their head. They could have waited, no? And while we demonize the seller for raising the price-who's to say that the seller isn't also sentimental? Maybe they would have kept it if they could, and they're selling the item(s) to pay for something like their kid's medical bills, or helping a family member out. Don't be so quick to assume that a seller raising their price is doing so out of pure greed. I've helped friends out in a tight jam before, and one of the ways I did so was to sell a few cards. They never knew how I got the money, but I asked what I felt was a fair price, and got it. The money never went in my pocket.

This will sound cold, but it's true: Kobe won't be any less dead a month from now when prices will normalize some. In two months, I would expect the market to return closer to the mean, or average price. Three months, closer still, if not all the way back. You can still be "a part of Black Mamba's career", owning a fat, overpriced 1/1 shiny card with his sticker auto, and jock strap tag in two months, and likely pay less to acquire it. That's economics.

I'm a movie collector. I'm on disability, and have been for ten years, permanent disability for about the last seven. I build my film collection for two reasons: one, I love film, and my collection keeps me entertained while I'm in bed almost 24/7. Secondly, and equally important, because my plan is to write about film (and sports) for a living, as I try to get off disability, and pay my own way again. There's nothing worse than having to rely on the government to survive, even though I worked my nuts off, and paid into the system.

I have x amount of dollars to spend on my collection every month. I can pay $20 + tax for a movie when it comes out on blu-ray. Or, if I wait, I can get the same film for less in a few months. I know when all the sales are each year, for each major label (Warner Bros, Fox, MGM, Disney) and boutique label (Criterion, Kino Lorber, Twilight Time, Warner Archive, and in England, Eurkea, Arrow Films, etc). I have much of what I'm going to buy plotted out months in advance. Some of the films I buy have limited print runs, like Twilight Time, a boutique label that typically does just 3,000 copies on blu-ray. They keep their licensing fees down by doing a smaller run. Occasionally, when demand outpaces supply, they might negotiate a second print run. If I wait a while after release, I might get it at a lower price. If the demand is high, I might miss out on it completely, or, be forced to pay a scalper $100 for a film that sold for $30. Or, I can hope the film was released on blu-ray in another part of the world, and import it from them. That's capitalism in a nut shell. Everything has a cost, and it's driven by demand. I don't think seeking a profit on an item, be it on a Kobe card, or a film with a low print run, is wrong. Again, nobody is forcing the consumer to buy it. I could always get my film on DVD which has no advertised print run. The quality is lesser (480p vs 1080p), but you pay for quality. It's up to each person to determine what they want, and what they're willing to comfortably pay.

[Mark17]

Over the past year I've visited Bud Grant a few times to get some things signed. He's 92 years old, still as quick-witted as anyone I know, and he has a great sense of humor. Last time I was at his house, he was signing some of my Metropolitan Stadium seats. We were having a pleasant conversation as usual, and about halfway through he paused and said, "I suppose these will be worth more after I die."

I replied, "Yes. So.... how are you feeling?"

[PowderedH2O]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Was this at the Kutsher's (Borsch Belt) resort in upstate New York?? Or were there other Pistol Pete camps? My brothers, friends and I went a couple of years in a row and my Dad was one of the (non-NBA player) instructors.

1976 at the University of New Orleans campus. Sponsored by Pepsi. All the Pepsi you could drink. I was a kid. I probably drank six a day.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by PowderedH2O

Bill, ironic that you should post this today. I am a high school teacher. We just started the new semester less than a week ago, so I am just getting to know the students. In my 4th period class I ended up having a 15 minute discussion with two 16 year old boys that had completed their work. It was on basketball history. They knew all about Maravich, Wilt, Oscar, etc. I was very impressed. Now, do they know that next level of star? I have no idea. I have so many memories, like going to my first NBA game as a kid and watching Bob Love torch the New Orleans Jazz.

I went to Pete's camp as a kid and still have the camp photo with all of us signed by him. He would show us trick shots and it was insane. Just like Kobe's passing, I was just devastated when he died at 40 years old.

Color me pleasantly surprised about their knowledge. That's great to hear, and very encouraging.

I'm sitting here watching some Pistol Pete highlights on YouTube. He had remarkable court vision, didn't he? He just instinctively knew where everyone was, all the time. Some of his passes just made the guys on the other team look foolish, and these were the best in the world. It's as if the ball just did his bidding. Underhanded, full court pass? No problem. Behind the back pass....to himself, followed by a no look, between the legs pass? Pfft, you can't do that? And he had remarkable hang time. He could jump, and delay the ball release, so whoever was defending him had already committed. This one video I watched showed him at the All Star game making these crazy passes to Dr. J. My God, lol. I just wish his career hadn't been wasted on so many bad teams. He was traded to the Celtics for part of his final year. Of course, the year after he retires, Boston wins the NBA Championship.

My earliest NBA memories came at the old Mecca Arena in Milwaukee. The Bucks were real good, back then, but not Lew Alcindor and Oscar Robertson good. I was born about five months after the Bucks won the NBA Championship. I'm still waiting for our next one. I've never seen a parade down Wisconsin Avenue in Milwaukee. I hope the Bucks can do it this year.

I grew up watching Marques Johnson at first. He was a pretty good player, coming from John Wooden's UCLA dynasty. Then, it was Sidney Moncrief, Terry Cummings, Jack Sikma. Lots of talent on that team, and Don Nelson was our Head Coach. Between the 1979-'80 season, and the 1986-'87 season, the Bucks averaged 54 wins a season. It was our misfortune that the Bucks were in a stacked Eastern Conference. Back then, first it was Dr. J and the Sixers ending our seasons in the playoffs. Then, it was Larry Bird and the Celtics. And before long, "oh, look, here comes the Bulls with this kid from UNC named Jordan." It just never let up.