Let's welcome Charlie Barokas to the Billion Dollar Fraud!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by japhi

Personally I think the 1B number is ridiculous. PSA is only a 75mm company, and more then half of that from coins. Cards, I think 30mm or so. I suspect BGS is much smaller.

It is however hard to swag this thing, but what we know is BO has found 5-10MM in value lift between all sports. And they only have access to a minuscule amount of data - only a fraction of only sales can be worked and most raw, card show, private, set, lot, etc cards are untraceable.

So this thing is clearly wide ranging and the number is big. But the guys hyperventilating about 1b need to chill out a bit or show how the math works on that number.

????

First, they've graded or authenticated over 30 million pieces. If it's an average price of $20 per that's $600 million.

Second, what on earth does that have to do with the dollar value of the scandal? If they grade a card that should be worth $500,000 and give it a grade that results in it being worth $10 million, do you think the fraud is just the cost of grading???!!!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

????

First, they've graded or authenticated over 30 million pieces. If it's an average price of $20 per that's $600 million.

Second, what on earth does that have to do with the dollar value of the scandal? If they grade a card that should be worth $500,000 and give it a grade that results in it being worth $10 million, do you think the fraud is just the cost of grading???!!!

Relax, it was just one data point. 30mm per annum is their aprox gross rev from card grading. PWCC is maybe a 5mm company. The hobby is not as big as some of you believe.

But, if you have the math on 1b in fraud lets see it. That number is being thrown around as fact. I think folks are over estimating the size

And in case anyone is confused I think this thing is big, real big. I won’t be submitting or collecting graded cards, it’s very clearly a racket that skews towards large submitters and dirt bags. I just don’t think it’s helpful to throw around numbers like 1b or hyper ventilate like Chuck does every day here.

[luciobar1980]

I just look at all this as more reason to stick to nicely presenting mid-grade cards.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

I just look at all this as more reason to stick to nicely presenting mid-grade cards.

You mean like 3's that have been doctored into 5's?

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

You mean like 3's that have been doctored into 5's?

I think it's more easier to turn a 6 into an 8 compared to turning a 3 into a 5. Most 3s out there are crap - corner wear, creasing, etc. Hard to turn that into a 5.