Let's welcome Charlie Barokas to the Billion Dollar Fraud!

[ctownboy]

Hello,

1) I absolutely despise the term "waterfront card".

2) If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

David

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

Let me qualify by saying that I do not understand the stock market well and I have not owned a single share of stock in a publicly traded company for over 10 years (including in a 401k, which I do not have).

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money. The world today reminds me very much of 2007. I do not understand why/how the stock market keeps going up, and I fear what is around the corner. People will do all they can to keep the good times rolling, until the bottom falls out. And, like with cards (or anything else that people are significantly invested in), shareholders in PSA want their stock to keep going up; even if that includes blatantly disregarding bad facts and warning signs. So I think there may be some convenient ignorance.

Second, I think there may be actual ignorance. From what I read, PSA has been doing a very good job of censoring and deflecting. They seem to be keeping damage to a minimum for now, hoping this all passes and doubling down on the faulty plan. Thus, I think fewer people know whats going on than we think. And, isnt that what happened to Enron? The stock was a dynamo until one day bad news came out and it sank like a Led Zeppelin? (I am pretty sure thats how they got their name).

So, I think many people dont know whats going, and most that do know whats going on, either dont care or pretend it does not exist.

Third, I think PSA is a fairly thinly traded stock, and I bet the larger stockholders have been somewhat (albeit legally) manipulating the price by either not selling or buying. The value of the stock should not fluctuate too much unless a few major movers, make moves. And perhaps the wise move for a major stockholder of PSA is either to buy, or certainly not sell.

I have come to believe that PSA is both incompetent, and on some level, 100% a part of this, and I would like to see them take a massive hit (and some officers go to country club jail); I do think they get it right more often than not, and I still want my cards in a slab (PSA or SGC), but I do think there is a very dirty thing going on in California. I think that as long as people keep at it, and noise is being made, the truth will catch up to PSA, and that truth will be reflected in the stock price (like Enron).

For this reason, it is crucial that BODA keep exposing all the altered cards, not just the "waterfront" ones, and why it is crucial that us message board(ers) dont disparage those calling out the card doctors and the TPGs that give them wings. The 1914 CJ Jacksons make the headlines, but the thousands of altered commons are what shows the pattern and proves the crime/scheme beyond any doubt.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money.

Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

Thats actually a good time to buy stocks..when they go on the bigger listing where the big guys buy them to diversify...lots of free buyers out there that raise the price..

[drcy]

Laurel: "Three million dollars! Is that as much as a thousand?"
Hardy: "Why, man alive! It's TWICE as much!"