Jeter - minus 1? WTF??

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by pgconboy

Jeter is lucky to have received as many votes as he did.

All advanced statistics suggest he was a defensive liability.

Do advanced statistics take into account 'The Flip' or the fact that he dove into the stands without regard for his health, to catch a foul pop against the Sox? He was the anchor of a 5 time WS winning infield for 20 years, at arguably the toughest position in baseball.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Jeter should have gotten a higher % of votes than Ruth or Cobb or Mays or.....they should have been 100% also. But the argument is that no knowledgeable baseball writer today should not consider Jeter a HOFer.

And don't forget that Jeter stayed clear of all the steroid controversy while many of those around him were either proven or accused of using. Including his biggest rivalry at SS in the AL - ARod and some of his teammates - Giambi.

The man is 6th all time in hits and 1st on the Yankees list of games, at-bats, hits and doubles and 2nd in runs and stolen bases.

And in case you are wondering, I'm a Reds fan and I don't think Jeter is the best SS to ever play. For my money, I'd take Cal (of players I've seen) and probably Honus all-time.

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Do advanced statistics take into account 'The Flip' or the fact that he dove into the stands without regard for his health, to catch a foul pop against the Sox? He was the anchor of a 5 time WS winning infield for 20 years, at arguably the toughest position in baseball.

You earnestly believe that advanced stats don't pit shorts stops against other short stops or that Jeter had a 'flip' that transcends the ability to be captured with numbers?

Jeter had a negative defensive war. Other metrics caught on to this as well:

"Since defensive runs saved (DRS) — indicates how many runs a player saved or hurt his team in the field compared to the average player at his position — became a statistic in 2003 until his retirement in 2014, Derek Jeter posted the worst rating among qualified shortstops with a staggering -152 DRS"

[packs]

dWAR is a useless stat. It gives Mattingly a negative breakdown even though he is more or less universally regarded as an all world first baseman.

How do I know Jeter was a terrible shortstop? I saw him play everyday.

And whoever is trying to knock Paul O'Neill down a peg, shame on you!